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Reply #60 posted 07/17/16 10:16am

2freaky4church
1

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We want democracy there but when the ugly reality of how to engineer it raises its ugly head we retreat.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #61 posted 07/17/16 12:21pm

KoolEaze

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2freaky4church1 said:

We want democracy there but when the ugly reality of how to engineer it raises its ugly head we retreat.

Turkey has many polıtıcal partıes and people are free to vote for the party they want in power.

Erdoğan did not get the majority of votes last year to rule with a majority and the other parties could have formed a coalition against him to have a new administration but the social democratic CHP and the Kurdish HDP and the right wing MHP did not want to unite ( CHP and HDP might have worked but they still would have needed the MHP). And the MHP sure as hell would never, ever work with the HDP so they had new elections but the second election's winner was Erdoğan's AKP.

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Your country has basically two parties that don't really differ that much from each other (compared to other countries) so I don't really understand your point.

And both of your presidential candidates are like a bad joke compared to most politicians in the EU.

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You have more freedom of speech and freedom of the press, I'll give you that, but even that is debatable when you think of what happened to artists who dared to criticize the Bush administration post 9/11.

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The ugly reality of how to engineer it? You mean a military coup like the one your country supported in 1980 that was secular in theory but also helped islamize the country because your country feared the rise of the left would turn Turkey communist?

.

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Sorry for writing more than one sentence, I know that's not your style. lol

" I´d rather be a stank ass hoe because I´m not stupid. Oh my goodness! I got more drugs! I´m always funny dude...I´m hilarious! Are we gonna smoke?"
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Reply #62 posted 07/17/16 12:36pm

2freaky4church
1

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Turkey is not democratic. What Erdogan did was much worse than the myths of the evil Hugo Chavez.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #63 posted 07/17/16 12:43pm

Connected

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Kooleaze - thank you for your reports... I hope you don't have too much of a hangover!!!

having beers during the attempted overthrow of your govt. - fantastic stuff - and a person after my own priorities!



I had great schoolfriends who were Turkish - the Ertughruls

Their Father used to school me on the virtues of Ataturk and Gallipoli

Am I right in saying Ataturk would have approved of the coup (albeit failed) - because of the principles behind it i.e. the restoration of secularism and a more inclusive/global/peaceful demeanour?

~Shakalaka!~..... ~Mayday!~
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Reply #64 posted 07/17/16 12:48pm

NorthC

^ Yes, I think Kemal would have turned in his grave. sad
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Reply #65 posted 07/17/16 5:33pm

KoolEaze

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Connected said:

Kooleaze - thank you for your reports... I hope you don't have too much of a hangover!!!

having beers during the attempted overthrow of your govt. - fantastic stuff - and a person after my own priorities!



I had great schoolfriends who were Turkish - the Ertughruls

Their Father used to school me on the virtues of Ataturk and Gallipoli

Am I right in saying Ataturk would have approved of the coup (albeit failed) - because of the principles behind it i.e. the restoration of secularism and a more inclusive/global/peaceful demeanour?

Sure, he would have approved of it and he almost predicted the current situation more than 90 years ago and warned people that they should be vigilant because he knew that there would come a time when ignorant and powerhungry Muslims would be one of the biggest threats to his people and his country. And he was an ardent student of the French Revolution and the Enlightenment.

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This being said, I really can't say with 100% certainty that the Turkish army was behind this attempted coup because the whole thing was very amateurish in nature and there are many signs that the FETÖ (Gülen) movement was behind this.

There aren't that many secular thinking opponents of Erdoğan left in the army. Most are imprisoned or were released last year and many have retired. The army is full of members of the Gülen clıque who planned infitrating the army in the early 90s.

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So it was either a coup planned by them (and they are definitely not secularists, they are even worse than Erdoğan as far as radical Islam goes).

Or it was staged ( a very widespread conspiracy theory here these days).

Or it was planned and orchestrated by the Gülen movement (FETÖ) and Erdoğan knew about it beforehand and still let it happen because it would strengthen him.

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Some German newspapers ponder whether this was orchestrated by the US and that it was really a bunch of desperate army members who were dumped by the US when things got ugly, similar to the failed Bay of Pigs invasion in Cuba during Kennedy's presidency.

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I really can't tell for sure but some of Erdo' s harshest critics believe it was FETÖ and the few remaining critical and anti-Erdoğan journalists also agree that this coup was NOT the work of secular Kemalists in the army, and the articles I've read made a lot of sense.

There really aren't that many secularists left in the army.

I wonder what the leader of the coup is going to say in court.

" I´d rather be a stank ass hoe because I´m not stupid. Oh my goodness! I got more drugs! I´m always funny dude...I´m hilarious! Are we gonna smoke?"
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Reply #66 posted 07/17/16 5:35pm

KoolEaze

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2freaky4church1 said:

Turkey is not democratic. What Erdogan did was much worse than the myths of the evil Hugo Chavez.

Where did I praise Erdogan ?

Why do you respond like that?

Your post makes zero sense to me.

" I´d rather be a stank ass hoe because I´m not stupid. Oh my goodness! I got more drugs! I´m always funny dude...I´m hilarious! Are we gonna smoke?"
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Reply #67 posted 07/17/16 8:48pm

XxAxX

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KoolEaze said:

I am drınkıng and drınkıng rıght now. No joke!

i'm wishing you the best. the news of a 'coup' has hit the american newswires. be careful and stay safe

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Reply #68 posted 07/18/16 2:42am

Chancellor

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that Coup was over before it began....If I'm planning a Mutiny then I'm going to take out the King...I'm gonna send my Goons to the Vacation spot where the President is residing and Blow him up while he's in the house...I'll tell my Goons to make sure The President is wiped off the face of the earth or don't bother coming back......Those Dumb asses blew up the vacation house AFTER the President left....If you have never plotted to Kill someone, if you have never Killed someone then don't bother doing it...You're gonna Fuck it up...

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Reply #69 posted 07/18/16 3:47am

mordang

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As Erdogan pleads for reinstating the deathpenalty, one can only wonder what will happen with these captured soldiers. Pawns in a gigantic game of chess.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan
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Reply #70 posted 07/18/16 4:20am

Chancellor

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mordang said:

As Erdogan pleads for reinstating the deathpenalty, one can only wonder what will happen with these captured soldiers. Pawns in a gigantic game of chess.

What's that old saying "Off with their Heads"....The Soldiers & the General who Led the botched Coup will die...They are seen as "terrorists" becuz they shot at citizens and killed around 60 of them...Oh yeah, they are definately gonna be put to death.....

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Reply #71 posted 07/18/16 10:28am

2freaky4church
1

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There will be another coup and it will work.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #72 posted 07/18/16 2:15pm

KoolEaze

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Chancellor said:

mordang said:

As Erdogan pleads for reinstating the deathpenalty, one can only wonder what will happen with these captured soldiers. Pawns in a gigantic game of chess.

What's that old saying "Off with their Heads"....The Soldiers & the General who Led the botched Coup will die...They are seen as "terrorists" becuz they shot at citizens and killed around 60 of them...Oh yeah, they are definately gonna be put to death.....

The death penalty has been abolished and the last time someone was executed was in 1984. He would need the approval of the other parties for that. The CHP and the HDP are strictly against the death penalty.

" I´d rather be a stank ass hoe because I´m not stupid. Oh my goodness! I got more drugs! I´m always funny dude...I´m hilarious! Are we gonna smoke?"
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Reply #73 posted 07/18/16 2:23pm

KoolEaze

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XxAxX said:

KoolEaze said:

I am drınkıng and drınkıng rıght now. No joke!

i'm wishing you the best. the news of a 'coup' has hit the american newswires. be careful and stay safe

Thanks.

I watched some of the American news.

These are not the secular generals of the past, this is a network of rival İslamists who have been infiltrating the army since the early 90s and Erdoğan let that happen because they were allies up until a few years ago.

The ''good guys'' in the army were not behind this and would not have allowed the bombing of the parliament building.

It's interesting to watch Fox news when you are at the center of the events unfolding.

There was a retired US general who thought this coup was carried out by secular generals. Those generals are no longer relevant.

" I´d rather be a stank ass hoe because I´m not stupid. Oh my goodness! I got more drugs! I´m always funny dude...I´m hilarious! Are we gonna smoke?"
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Reply #74 posted 07/18/16 2:26pm

2freaky4church
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Note they called it a coup but would not call Egypt one.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #75 posted 07/19/16 1:20am

Chancellor

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KoolEaze said:

The death penalty has been abolished and the last time someone was executed was in 1984. He would need the approval of the other parties for that. The CHP and the HDP are strictly against the death penalty.

Re-read what you typed to me and then I want YOU to think about what they tried to do to their President...They BLEW UP the man's vacation home thinking he was in it...If that was not enough they also wounded & killed Citizens....They are going to DIE a horrible death....

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Reply #76 posted 07/19/16 5:27pm

KoolEaze

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Chancellor said:



KoolEaze said:



The death penalty has been abolished and the last time someone was executed was in 1984. He would need the approval of the other parties for that. The CHP and the HDP are strictly against the death penalty.






Re-read what you typed to me and then I want YOU to think about what they tried to do to their President...They BLEW UP the man's vacation home thinking he was in it...If that was not enough they also wounded & killed Citizens....They are going to DIE a horrible death....


He is furious and he wants them dead but there is no death penalty so he would HAVE to bring back the death penalty first. And he needs approval for that.
" I´d rather be a stank ass hoe because I´m not stupid. Oh my goodness! I got more drugs! I´m always funny dude...I´m hilarious! Are we gonna smoke?"
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Reply #77 posted 07/20/16 1:50am

mordang

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KoolEaze said:

Chancellor said:

Re-read what you typed to me and then I want YOU to think about what they tried to do to their President...They BLEW UP the man's vacation home thinking he was in it...If that was not enough they also wounded & killed Citizens....They are going to DIE a horrible death....

He is furious and he wants them dead but there is no death penalty so he would HAVE to bring back the death penalty first. And he needs approval for that.

I don't think that this is going to be a problem. If the current tendency prevails that disagreement or criticism is being regarded as unnationalistic of treason, there will be an incentive to vote in favour of the deathpenalty.

I don't think that the common soldiers will be subjected to these punishments (long jailtime). But I do think that (high-ranking) key players in the coup, but also those who have been most active in opposing Erdogan are in jeopardy. With impartial judges out of the way and little help from the policeforce it will not be to difficult to fabricate evidence for those who had nothing to do with the coup, but are simply in Erdogan's way. It is fairly easy to coerce soldiers in giving false evidence in trade of freedom. Past 12 year's Erdogan has made sure that positions in clergy other important public services have been filled with as much supporters of his policies as possible. Basically he controling every aspect of society now. Trias politica is no longer the fundament. Impartial media is almost completly gone.

Turkye is heading for a civil war or even more agressive perpetual repression of Kurds, Alevites and all those who have other ideas about the future of Turkye then the views of Erdogan.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan
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Reply #78 posted 07/20/16 4:14am

mordang

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Summary:



  • 7500 soldier arrested, amongst them 85 generals and admirals

  • 1500 judges non active

  • 1500 deans on universities summoned to resign

  • 21,000 private-school teachers have their licenses canceled

  • 9000 police officers and co-workes fired

We are seeing the birth of a new islamic republic. With full implementation and indoctrination of islamic values. Erdogan had a holly mission. That was known 20 years ago, that hasn't changed since. The west has continued to support him, turned more than one blind eye when he violated human rights. Fed his system with means and money. Anyone with half a brain could see that this was a dangerous man. A religious zelot, a demagogue, powerhungry and not afraid to have blood on his hands. And most important of all, smarter than all our politicians

Those who were not in favor of these policies have been called islamofobic, xenophoob or stupid biggots. Again, political correctness and opportunity has failed too see long term and underestimated the power of religious tenacity versus reason and freedom.

I see a strong Turkye, with a big army. Smart enough not to pick too many fights at the same times and with one foot over the doorstep of Europe. While our leaders look to Russia as our enemy, it should look to Turkye.

It has got us by the balls. Erdogan has my admiration as master of (geo)politics. At this very moment he is the most dangerous man in the world.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan
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Reply #79 posted 07/20/16 8:02am

TweetyV6

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mordang said:

Summary:



  • 7500 soldier arrested, amongst them 85 generals and admirals

  • 1500 judges non active

  • 1500 deans on universities summoned to resign

  • 21,000 private-school teachers have their licenses canceled

  • 9000 police officers and co-workes fired


You may add to the list: Turkish scientists are not allowed to leave the country, scientists currently abroad are summoned to return to Turkey unless it's absolutely necessary for them to stay abroad.
eek

WTF is he up to?

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
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Reply #80 posted 07/20/16 11:16am

fortuneandsere
ndipity

The similarities between Erdogan and Hitler are endless. Also they both hate jews.

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Reply #81 posted 07/20/16 11:36am

2freaky4church
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You do know Israel is allied with them?

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #82 posted 07/21/16 2:25am

Chancellor

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mordang said:

Summary:



  • 7500 soldier arrested, amongst them 85 generals and admirals

  • 1500 judges non active

  • 1500 deans on universities summoned to resign

  • 21,000 private-school teachers have their licenses canceled

  • 9000 police officers and co-workes fired

We are seeing the birth of a new islamic republic. With full implementation and indoctrination of islamic values. Erdogan had a holly mission. That was known 20 years ago, that hasn't changed since. The west has continued to support him, turned more than one blind eye when he violated human rights. Fed his system with means and money. Anyone with half a brain could see that this was a dangerous man. A religious zelot, a demagogue, powerhungry and not afraid to have blood on his hands. And most important of all, smarter than all our politicians

Those who were not in favor of these policies have been called islamofobic, xenophoob or stupid biggots. Again, political correctness and opportunity has failed too see long term and underestimated the power of religious tenacity versus reason and freedom.

I see a strong Turkye, with a big army. Smart enough not to pick too many fights at the same times and with one foot over the doorstep of Europe. While our leaders look to Russia as our enemy, it should look to Turkye.

It has got us by the balls. Erdogan has my admiration as master of (geo)politics. At this very moment he is the most dangerous man in the world.

That is unreal..When was the last time 7500 Soldiers were arrested at one time? The freaking Generals & Admirals is just the icing on the cake..

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Reply #83 posted 07/21/16 5:02am

fortuneandsere
ndipity

2freaky4church1 said:

You do know Israel is allied with them?

Sometimes like you I like to say daft things for effect.

Ok then, they both dislike jews and both like to sing disdainful songs about them while taking a bubble bath, so it's been reported.

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