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Thread started 05/09/20 12:31pm

donnyenglish

Taking Credit For Prince's Art After He Passed

Since a lot of his associates have been taking credit for his work since he has passed, I was thinking that we can have one thread so we can make a running list to keep track. I'll start off on a positive note: Jesse Johnson said he wrote the music to Jungle Love and he produced the receipts with a tape of his demo . Jesse was also a brilliant musician that produced many other great songs without Prince. He is also humble and I haven't heard him embellish about his contributions despite his differences with Prince.

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Reply #1 posted 05/09/20 7:41pm

woogiebear

donnyenglish said:

Since a lot of his associates have been taking credit for his work since he has passed, I was thinking that we can have one thread so we can make a running list to keep track. I'll start off on a positive note: Jesse Johnson said he wrote the music to Jungle Love and he produced the receipts with a tape of his demo . Jesse was also a brilliant musician that produced many other great songs without Prince. He is also humble and I haven't heard him embellish about his contributions despite his differences with Prince.

Wendy & Lisa ALSO have contributed 2 Prince's work. There's a Story about
"Mountains" and what Their contributions were

cool cool

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Reply #2 posted 05/10/20 10:42am

TrivialPursuit

avatar

woogiebear said:

Wendy & Lisa ALSO have contributed 2 Prince's work. There's a Story about
"Mountains"...


I don't know why other fans have gotten in a snit about the "Mountains" story (not you, just in general). I remember hearing the same story decades ago. Same with Wendy adding 7ths or 9ths to the chords in "Purple Rain," the string interlude before "The Ladder" (that was in "Our Destiny"), their mixes of "Strange Relationship," "I Could Never Take The Place of Your Man," etc.

It's ironic that, back then, everyone constantly said things like "Wendy and Lisa added so much to Prince's music," using words like "color" and "flair" a lot. People loved the duo in the group and were more heartbroken over them leaving the band than Bobby or Mark. Prince also never rebutted any of their tales about that stuff.

But now every other person is pissing on their stories. Yet fans want more stories about Prince, more insight into his life and his music, and when they get it, it's not good enough.

It's not exactly a secret that Prince would hear something, take it, and make a song from it often not crediting the person who he got it from. So the "Mountains" story, although not about theft, really isn't that unbelievable.

Just when U think U've got more than enough, that's when it all up and flies away.
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Reply #3 posted 05/11/20 4:09pm

Wowugotit

TrivialPursuit said:

woogiebear said:

Wendy & Lisa ALSO have contributed 2 Prince's work. There's a Story about
"Mountains"...


I don't know why other fans have gotten in a snit about the "Mountains" story (not you, just in general). I remember hearing the same story decades ago. Same with Wendy adding 7ths or 9ths to the chords in "Purple Rain," the string interlude before "The Ladder" (that was in "Our Destiny"), their mixes of "Strange Relationship," "I Could Never Take The Place of Your Man," etc.

It's ironic that, back then, everyone constantly said things like "Wendy and Lisa added so much to Prince's music," using words like "color" and "flair" a lot. People loved the duo in the group and were more heartbroken over them leaving the band than Bobby or Mark. Prince also never rebutted any of their tales about that stuff.

But now every other person is pissing on their stories. Yet fans want more stories about Prince, more insight into his life and his music, and when they get it, it's not good enough.

It's not exactly a secret that Prince would hear something, take it, and make a song from it often not crediting the person who he got it from. So the "Mountains" story, although not about theft, really isn't that unbelievable.

I totally agree!

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Reply #4 posted 05/11/20 6:33pm

rednblue

TrivialPursuit said:

woogiebear said:

Wendy & Lisa ALSO have contributed 2 Prince's work. There's a Story about
"Mountains"...


I don't know why other fans have gotten in a snit about the "Mountains" story (not you, just in general). I remember hearing the same story decades ago. Same with Wendy adding 7ths or 9ths to the chords in "Purple Rain," the string interlude before "The Ladder" (that was in "Our Destiny"), their mixes of "Strange Relationship," "I Could Never Take The Place of Your Man," etc.

It's ironic that, back then, everyone constantly said things like "Wendy and Lisa added so much to Prince's music," using words like "color" and "flair" a lot. People loved the duo in the group and were more heartbroken over them leaving the band than Bobby or Mark. Prince also never rebutted any of their tales about that stuff.

But now every other person is pissing on their stories. Yet fans want more stories about Prince, more insight into his life and his music, and when they get it, it's not good enough.

It's not exactly a secret that Prince would hear something, take it, and make a song from it often not crediting the person who he got it from. So the "Mountains" story, although not about theft, really isn't that unbelievable.


This has been described by multiple musicians from multiple eras. Same for Prince sometimes crediting others with his own ideas and writing.

As fans, we don't have first-hand knowledge of the truth of who contributed what.

That said, it's clear that Prince was a musical genius who worked with many extremely talented artists.

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Reply #5 posted 05/12/20 7:58pm

databank

avatar

There is no such thing as a "story" regarding W&L's contributions to Mountains, they received co-writing credit when the song was copyrighted at ASCAP and it's been a known fact since Uptown mag unearthed ASCAP registrations 3 decades ago. Same with Sometimes It Snows In April and, later, Power Fantastic.

.

Same goes with Jesse BTW. Long before he made any claim himself (which he did over a decade before Prince died anyway, the earliest occurence I'm aware of being 2006 on his Myspace page), Per Nislen and Uptown mag had cleared the issue by revealing that TB and JL had first been registered as a P/Morris/Jesse compositions in May 84, before being re-registered as P/Morris compositions right before release. The story has also been confirmed by other parties if I'm not mistaken.

.

People who try to create debates about these 2 credits by turning well known facts into "claims" are either lazy people who think they invented the wheel while the matter has been closed for over 2 decades, or trolls who know exactly what they're doing and attempt to tarnish W&L or Jesse's reputation.

.

Apart from these, the only post-mortem, unverified claims I'm aware of are:

.

Sheila E. stated on some occasions, including her book I believe, that she had composed or co-composed various songs from her first 2 albums that have been believed to be solely Prince compositions for over 2 decades. ASCAP registrations gave her co-credit on Noon Rendezvous and A Love Bizarre, and full credit with everything else on Romance 1600 as well as Holly Rock. However, this was contradicted by everyone interviewed by Uptown/Per Nilsen/Duane Tudahl, and even by studio logs since, if I remember Duane's book correctly, at least one song Sheila claims to have written was recorded before she was even recruited by Prince. Not to mention Originals last year. Sheila herself kind of tacitely explained on her Redbull Academy interview why Prince gave her these royalties: she came out of the PR tour completely broke, with a 100,000 bill. The information regarding the songs go back to long before P died or Sheila made any contemporary claims, so this clearly isn't some sort of anti-Sheila conspiracy. With all due respect to Sheila, there is very little to support her narrative: it appears that her claims are false and that the only songs she co-wrote on these 2 records are Noon Rendezvous and A Love Bizarre (and, of course, Merci For... and her b-sides, which had no P involvement).

.

André claimed, in the Prince Podcast IIRC, that he came up with the basslines (and basslines only) for Uptown, Controversy and Let's Work while jamming in rehearsals. Prince would have build the songs around his basslines afterwards. As far as I can tell this has not been confirmed not denied by any witness yet. I'd give him the benefit of doubt and assume that, until contradicted by someone who was there, his claims can be assumed to be true. The Do Me Baby story goes back to early Uptown/Nilsen/Tudahl research in the 90's and has been confirmed by other parties if I'm not mistaken, so it's out of topic here.

.

Michael Bland recently claimed, again in the Prince Podcast, that he and Sonny came-up with the drums and basslines (again, drums and basslines only) of 319, P Control and Ripopgodazippa, among other tracks he didn't name, while jamming in rehearsals, and that Prince build the tracks over their jamming. This scenario is remarkably consistant with the story told by André earlier, so again, I'd assume that unless contradicted by someone who was there, his claims can be assumed to be true.

.

When she posted her unreleased music video of Fantasia Erotica on YT, Anna Fantastic claimed to have co-composed the lyrics and melody. The song was later copyrighted as a Prince/Carmen co-composition but there is no reason to doubt Anna's story, particularly since we have reasons to believe that most if not all the credits/royalties given to Carmen on her album were a gift from Prince, and that he in fact came-up with everything else she was credited for. So once again, I'd assume that unless contradicted by someone who was there, her claims can be assumed to be true.

.

Finally, and it was in a Questlove interview IIRC, but it could also have been the Prince Podcast, Mark claimed to have been involved in the David Z arrangement of Kiss. My understanding of the story unearthed by Uptown/Nislen/Tudahl in the 90's, later retold by David Z, was that David and Mazarati were alone in the studio that night and that David mostly came-up with the arrangement. But I may have forgotten about Mark's presence and, since he was involved in the project anyway, it is not unthinkable that he would have been there, too. I guss Duane's next book will solve the matter once and for all.

.

That's all I know but it's very possible that I missed something.

[Edited 5/12/20 19:59pm]

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #6 posted 05/12/20 8:38pm

rednblue

databank said:

There is no such thing as a "story" regarding W&L's contributions to Mountains, they received co-writing credit when the song was copyrighted at ASCAP and it's been a known fact since Uptown mag unearthed ASCAP registrations 3 decades ago. Same with Sometimes It Snows In April and, later, Power Fantastic.

.

Same goes with Jesse BTW. Long before he made any claim himself (which he did over a decade before Prince died anyway, the earliest occurence I'm aware of being 2006 on his Myspace page), Per Nislen and Uptown mag had cleared the issue by revealing that TB and JL had first been registered as a P/Morris/Jesse compositions in May 84, before being re-registered as P/Morris compositions right before release. The story has also been confirmed by other parties if I'm not mistaken.

.

People who try to create debates about these 2 credits by turning well known facts into "claims" are either lazy people who think they invented the wheel while the matter has been closed for over 2 decades, or trolls who know exactly what they're doing and attempt to tarnish W&L or Jesse's reputation.

.

Apart from these, the only post-mortem, unverified claims I'm aware of are:

.

Sheila E. stated on some occasions, including her book I believe, that she had composed or co-composed various songs from her first 2 albums that have been believed to be solely Prince compositions for over 2 decades. ASCAP registrations gave her co-credit on Noon Rendezvous and A Love Bizarre, and full credit with everything else on Romance 1600 as well as Holly Rock. However, this was contradicted by everyone interviewed by Uptown/Per Nilsen/Duane Tudahl, and even by studio logs since, if I remember Duane's book correctly, at least one song Sheila claims to have written was recorded before she was even recruited by Prince. Not to mention Originals last year. Sheila herself kind of tacitely explained on her Redbull Academy interview why Prince gave her these royalties: she came out of the PR tour completely broke, with a 100,000 bill. The information regarding the songs go back to long before P died or Sheila made any contemporary claims, so this clearly isn't some sort of anti-Sheila conspiracy. With all due respect to Sheila, there is very little to support her narrative: it appears that her claims are false and that the only songs she co-wrote on these 2 records are Noon Rendezvous and A Love Bizarre (and, of course, Merci For... and her b-sides, which had no P involvement).

.

André claimed, in the Prince Podcast IIRC, that he came up with the basslines (and basslines only) for Uptown, Controversy and Let's Work while jamming in rehearsals. Prince would have build the songs around his basslines afterwards. As far as I can tell this has not been confirmed not denied by any witness yet. I'd give him the benefit of doubt and assume that, until contradicted by someone who was there, his claims can be assumed to be true. The Do Me Baby story goes back to early Uptown/Nilsen/Tudahl research in the 90's and has been confirmed by other parties if I'm not mistaken, so it's out of topic here.

.

Michael Bland recently claimed, again in the Prince Podcast, that he and Sonny came-up with the drums and basslines (again, drums and basslines only) of 319, P Control and Ripopgodazippa, among other tracks he didn't name, while jamming in rehearsals, and that Prince build the tracks over their jamming. This scenario is remarkably consistant with the story told by André earlier, so again, I'd assume that unless contradicted by someone who was there, his claims can be assumed to be true.

.

When she posted her unreleased music video of Fantasia Erotica on YT, Anna Fantastic claimed to have co-composed the lyrics and melody. The song was later copyrighted as a Prince/Carmen co-composition but there is no reason to doubt Anna's story, particularly since we have reasons to believe that most if not all the credits/royalties given to Carmen on her album were a gift from Prince, and that he in fact came-up with everything else she was credited for. So once again, I'd assume that unless contradicted by someone who was there, her claims can be assumed to be true.

.

Finally, and it was in a Questlove interview IIRC, but it could also have been the Prince Podcast, Mark claimed to have been involved in the David Z arrangement of Kiss. My understanding of the story unearthed by Uptown/Nislen/Tudahl in the 90's, later retold by David Z, was that David and Mazarati were alone in the studio that night and that David mostly came-up with the arrangement. But I may have forgotten about Mark's presence and, since he was involved in the project anyway, it is not unthinkable that he would have been there, too. I guss Duane's next book will solve the matter once and for all.

.

That's all I know but it's very possible that I missed something.

[Edited 5/12/20 19:59pm]


I think you meant 3121. I really appreciate your posts, so truly sorry if I'm being annoying.

Prince had so darn many songs, he had at least two starting with "31" alone. lol


https://youtu.be/MRQyqgzgnyY?t=4336

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Reply #7 posted 05/13/20 3:41am

databank

avatar

rednblue said:



databank said:


There is no such thing as a "story" regarding W&L's contributions to Mountains, they received co-writing credit when the song was copyrighted at ASCAP and it's been a known fact since Uptown mag unearthed ASCAP registrations 3 decades ago. Same with Sometimes It Snows In April and, later, Power Fantastic.


.


Same goes with Jesse BTW. Long before he made any claim himself (which he did over a decade before Prince died anyway, the earliest occurence I'm aware of being 2006 on his Myspace page), Per Nislen and Uptown mag had cleared the issue by revealing that TB and JL had first been registered as a P/Morris/Jesse compositions in May 84, before being re-registered as P/Morris compositions right before release. The story has also been confirmed by other parties if I'm not mistaken.


.


People who try to create debates about these 2 credits by turning well known facts into "claims" are either lazy people who think they invented the wheel while the matter has been closed for over 2 decades, or trolls who know exactly what they're doing and attempt to tarnish W&L or Jesse's reputation.


.


Apart from these, the only post-mortem, unverified claims I'm aware of are:


.


Sheila E. stated on some occasions, including her book I believe, that she had composed or co-composed various songs from her first 2 albums that have been believed to be solely Prince compositions for over 2 decades. ASCAP registrations gave her co-credit on Noon Rendezvous and A Love Bizarre, and full credit with everything else on Romance 1600 as well as Holly Rock. However, this was contradicted by everyone interviewed by Uptown/Per Nilsen/Duane Tudahl, and even by studio logs since, if I remember Duane's book correctly, at least one song Sheila claims to have written was recorded before she was even recruited by Prince. Not to mention Originals last year. Sheila herself kind of tacitely explained on her Redbull Academy interview why Prince gave her these royalties: she came out of the PR tour completely broke, with a 100,000 bill. The information regarding the songs go back to long before P died or Sheila made any contemporary claims, so this clearly isn't some sort of anti-Sheila conspiracy. With all due respect to Sheila, there is very little to support her narrative: it appears that her claims are false and that the only songs she co-wrote on these 2 records are Noon Rendezvous and A Love Bizarre (and, of course, Merci For... and her b-sides, which had no P involvement).


.


André claimed, in the Prince Podcast IIRC, that he came up with the basslines (and basslines only) for Uptown, Controversy and Let's Work while jamming in rehearsals. Prince would have build the songs around his basslines afterwards. As far as I can tell this has not been confirmed not denied by any witness yet. I'd give him the benefit of doubt and assume that, until contradicted by someone who was there, his claims can be assumed to be true. The Do Me Baby story goes back to early Uptown/Nilsen/Tudahl research in the 90's and has been confirmed by other parties if I'm not mistaken, so it's out of topic here.


.


Michael Bland recently claimed, again in the Prince Podcast, that he and Sonny came-up with the drums and basslines (again, drums and basslines only) of 319, P Control and Ripopgodazippa, among other tracks he didn't name, while jamming in rehearsals, and that Prince build the tracks over their jamming. This scenario is remarkably consistant with the story told by André earlier, so again, I'd assume that unless contradicted by someone who was there, his claims can be assumed to be true.


.


When she posted her unreleased music video of Fantasia Erotica on YT, Anna Fantastic claimed to have co-composed the lyrics and melody. The song was later copyrighted as a Prince/Carmen co-composition but there is no reason to doubt Anna's story, particularly since we have reasons to believe that most if not all the credits/royalties given to Carmen on her album were a gift from Prince, and that he in fact came-up with everything else she was credited for. So once again, I'd assume that unless contradicted by someone who was there, her claims can be assumed to be true.


.


Finally, and it was in a Questlove interview IIRC, but it could also have been the Prince Podcast, Mark claimed to have been involved in the David Z arrangement of Kiss. My understanding of the story unearthed by Uptown/Nislen/Tudahl in the 90's, later retold by David Z, was that David and Mazarati were alone in the studio that night and that David mostly came-up with the arrangement. But I may have forgotten about Mark's presence and, since he was involved in the project anyway, it is not unthinkable that he would have been there, too. I guss Duane's next book will solve the matter once and for all.


.


That's all I know but it's very possible that I missed something.


[Edited 5/12/20 19:59pm]




I think you meant 3121. I really appreciate your posts, so truly sorry if I'm being annoying.

Prince had so darn many songs, he had at least two starting with "31" alone. lol


https://youtu.be/MRQyqgzgnyY?t=4336


Yes, 3121 it is, sorry for mixing numbers up. And the correction is more than welcome and appreciated hug
A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #8 posted 05/14/20 2:30pm

woogiebear

databank said:

rednblue said:


I think you meant 3121. I really appreciate your posts, so truly sorry if I'm being annoying.

Prince had so darn many songs, he had at least two starting with "31" alone. lol


https://youtu.be/MRQyqgzgnyY?t=4336

Yes, 3121 it is, sorry for mixing numbers up. And the correction is more than welcome and appreciated hug

Just saying that They"ve contributed 2 the Music of Prince is all. Story wasn't meant 2 b "sensationalist". Jesse also stated recently that He played Guitar on the Song "1999" as well.

cool

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Reply #9 posted 05/14/20 5:28pm

rednblue

woogiebear said:



databank said:


rednblue said:



I think you meant 3121. I really appreciate your posts, so truly sorry if I'm being annoying.

Prince had so darn many songs, he had at least two starting with "31" alone. lol


https://youtu.be/MRQyqgzgnyY?t=4336



Yes, 3121 it is, sorry for mixing numbers up. And the correction is more than welcome and appreciated hug

Just saying that They"ve contributed 2 the Music of Prince is all. Story wasn't meant 2 b "sensationalist". Jesse also stated recently that He played Guitar on the Song "1999" as well.


cool

I’m the last person that would find this sensationalist. Hearing from purple world people makes my day.
biggrin
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