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Thread started 05/28/19 12:11pm

RodeoSchro

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Various questions about a couple random things

1. Harmonies. WOW! Prince's harmonies are better than any others' that I've ever heard. That point is really driven home in "Forever in My Life", since you can hear the harmonies by themselves. But there are so, so, so many other songs with incredible harmonies. My question is this:

Did Prince use a harmonizer to recreate extra layers of a particular harmony, or did he record it two, three or four times to get the sound he wanted? I'm guessing the answer will be "both"; in fact, there are parts in "Forever in My Life" that might have been electronically reproduced, while at the same time there's another layer or two in there that are unquestionably live. Anyone have any professional insight on this?

2. "F It Up" jam. I love it! Especially the "Born in the USA" part and the "Yahoooo!" that follows it. Gives me chills every time I hear it; pure unadulterated joy.

My questions are: (a) does that workout have a name? I've always heard it called "F it Up" or "F*** it Up" since I got it 30 years ago. But I can't find anything like that in Princevault; and (b) did the band use that jam on tour? It segues into "It's Gonna Be a Beautiful Night" but I couldn't find a setlist that had anything resembling "F it Up" as an intro song into IGBABN. So, was it played on any tour(s) and if so, when?

3. I don't think I posted this but if I did, forgive the duplication. Awhile back I asked about some things I'd never seen Prince do, including using a capo or using open/alternate tunings. A guy named Rick Marcel was a session guitarist at Paisley in the '90's and we were talking the other day, so I asked him those questions. He said Prince often used a capo when jamming or recording at Paisley, and he also used alternate or open tunings. But Rick couldn't remember which songs used those tunings.

If you have any random questions about stuff like this, post it hear and let's see if we can answer them!

Second Funkiest White Man in America

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Reply #1 posted 05/28/19 12:46pm

langebleu

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RodeoSchro said:


3. I don't think I posted this but if I did, forgive the duplication. Awhile back I asked about some things I'd never seen Prince do, including using a capo or using open/alternate tunings. A guy named Rick Marcel was a session guitarist at Paisley in the '90's and we were talking the other day, so I asked him those questions. He said Prince often used a capo when jamming or recording at Paisley, and he also used alternate or open tunings. But Rick couldn't remember which songs used those tunings.

I've never come across any examples of Prince having used either a capo or alternate / open tunings

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Reply #2 posted 05/28/19 1:22pm

RodeoSchro

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langebleu said:

RodeoSchro said:


3. I don't think I posted this but if I did, forgive the duplication. Awhile back I asked about some things I'd never seen Prince do, including using a capo or using open/alternate tunings. A guy named Rick Marcel was a session guitarist at Paisley in the '90's and we were talking the other day, so I asked him those questions. He said Prince often used a capo when jamming or recording at Paisley, and he also used alternate or open tunings. But Rick couldn't remember which songs used those tunings.

I've never come across any examples of Prince having used either a capo or alternate / open tunings



Me neither, but a guy who worked for him/played with him a few hundred times said he did at Paisley Park. I guess he just never did it on a record.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

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Reply #3 posted 05/28/19 2:14pm

PeteSilas

i can only sort of answer the first question, I'm not sure if harmonizers were used in that era but, prince always did great harmony work, he didn't need any help, on his first album he did some of his best on For You. Not too many people that I'm aware of did the backing self vocals as well, not Marvin,(who was a pioneer) not Mj who did really good too, no one that I know of. In fact, I think it's one of his most influential facets of his music that affected r&b.

RodeoSchro said:

1. Harmonies. WOW! Prince's harmonies are better than any others' that I've ever heard. That point is really driven home in "Forever in My Life", since you can hear the harmonies by themselves. But there are so, so, so many other songs with incredible harmonies. My question is this:

Did Prince use a harmonizer to recreate extra layers of a particular harmony, or did he record it two, three or four times to get the sound he wanted? I'm guessing the answer will be "both"; in fact, there are parts in "Forever in My Life" that might have been electronically reproduced, while at the same time there's another layer or two in there that are unquestionably live. Anyone have any professional insight on this?

2. "F It Up" jam. I love it! Especially the "Born in the USA" part and the "Yahoooo!" that follows it. Gives me chills every time I hear it; pure unadulterated joy.

My questions are: (a) does that workout have a name? I've always heard it called "F it Up" or "F*** it Up" since I got it 30 years ago. But I can't find anything like that in Princevault; and (b) did the band use that jam on tour? It segues into "It's Gonna Be a Beautiful Night" but I couldn't find a setlist that had anything resembling "F it Up" as an intro song into IGBABN. So, was it played on any tour(s) and if so, when?

3. I don't think I posted this but if I did, forgive the duplication. Awhile back I asked about some things I'd never seen Prince do, including using a capo or using open/alternate tunings. A guy named Rick Marcel was a session guitarist at Paisley in the '90's and we were talking the other day, so I asked him those questions. He said Prince often used a capo when jamming or recording at Paisley, and he also used alternate or open tunings. But Rick couldn't remember which songs used those tunings.

If you have any random questions about stuff like this, post it hear and let's see if we can answer them!

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Reply #4 posted 05/28/19 8:50pm

WhisperingDand
elions

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PeteSilas said:

i can only sort of answer the first question, I'm not sure if harmonizers were used in that era but, prince always did great harmony work, he didn't need any help, on his first album he did some of his best on For You. Not too many people that I'm aware of did the backing self vocals as well, not Marvin,(who was a pioneer) not Mj who did really good too, no one that I know of. In fact, I think it's one of his most influential facets of his music that affected r&b.

I thought Marvin always did them?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48Cx65fmb7Y

.

1973, backing singers only credited for one track on the album.

[Edited 5/28/19 20:52pm]

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Reply #5 posted 05/28/19 9:10pm

PeteSilas

WhisperingDandelions said:

PeteSilas said:

i can only sort of answer the first question, I'm not sure if harmonizers were used in that era but, prince always did great harmony work, he didn't need any help, on his first album he did some of his best on For You. Not too many people that I'm aware of did the backing self vocals as well, not Marvin,(who was a pioneer) not Mj who did really good too, no one that I know of. In fact, I think it's one of his most influential facets of his music that affected r&b.

I thought Marvin always did them?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48Cx65fmb7Y

.

1973, backing singers only credited for one track on the album.

[Edited 5/28/19 20:52pm]

he did and i call him sorta a pioneer because just about anything you can think of has already been done. buddy holly backed his own tracks way back in the 50's so marvin wasn't the first but he definitely took it further, inspiring some real good work from Mj/prince and a million other people.

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Reply #6 posted 05/28/19 9:16pm

WhisperingDand
elions

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PeteSilas said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

I thought Marvin always did them?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48Cx65fmb7Y

.

1973, backing singers only credited for one track on the album.

[Edited 5/28/19 20:52pm]

he did and i call him sorta a pioneer because just about anything you can think of has already been done. buddy holly backed his own tracks way back in the 50's so marvin wasn't the first but he definitely took it further, inspiring some real good work from Mj/prince and a million other people.

That's valid, you were just stating the complete opposite one post ago. But I agree with this counter, sure.

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Reply #7 posted 05/28/19 9:58pm

PeteSilas

WhisperingDandelions said:

PeteSilas said:

he did and i call him sorta a pioneer because just about anything you can think of has already been done. buddy holly backed his own tracks way back in the 50's so marvin wasn't the first but he definitely took it further, inspiring some real good work from Mj/prince and a million other people.

That's valid, you were just stating the complete opposite one post ago. But I agree with this counter, sure.

not to beat a dead horse but I didn't want to credit marvin with inventing something he didn't invent, that's all. No big deal, Hendrix didn't invent distortion either but he sure knew how to make something new out of it.

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Reply #8 posted 05/28/19 10:38pm

langebleu

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RodeoSchro said:

langebleu said:

I've never come across any examples of Prince having used either a capo or alternate / open tunings



Me neither, but a guy who worked for him/played with him a few hundred times said he did at Paisley Park. I guess he just never did it on a record.


You referred to him as 'a session guitarist at Paisley in the '90s'. Do you have any information on what sessions / time period in the '90s and what being a session guitarist in this context involved? From recollection, I've not come across Rick Marcel having been connected with Prince.

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Reply #9 posted 05/29/19 4:09am

JorisE73

langebleu said:

RodeoSchro said:



Me neither, but a guy who worked for him/played with him a few hundred times said he did at Paisley Park. I guess he just never did it on a record.


You referred to him as 'a session guitarist at Paisley in the '90s'. Do you have any information on what sessions / time period in the '90s and what being a session guitarist in this context involved? From recollection, I've not come across Rick Marcel having been connected with Prince.


Me neither, someone who knows engineers and bandmembers from the 90's asked about him and Prince and none of them heard of him.

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Reply #10 posted 05/29/19 5:21am

jaawwnn

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Claims to have worked with Prince in the 80's on this old bio,

http://www.entertainmenthouston.com/acts/bands/rickmarcel/rickmarcel.htm



all scrubbed from his more recent bio:
https://www.rickmarcelmus...about.html

fair play to him if he was just making it up and blagging his way into work.

I see him playing on some cruises with Sheila E. and Candy Dulfer in recent times, if you're looking for any more connections.

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Reply #11 posted 05/29/19 8:24am

RodeoSchro

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jaawwnn said:

Claims to have worked with Prince in the 80's on this old bio,

http://www.entertainmenthouston.com/acts/bands/rickmarcel/rickmarcel.htm



all scrubbed from his more recent bio:
https://www.rickmarcelmus...about.html

fair play to him if he was just making it up and blagging his way into work.

I see him playing on some cruises with Sheila E. and Candy Dulfer in recent times, if you're looking for any more connections.



He definitely played with Prince at Paisley Park, although I was guessing the 90's based on his age, and on the fact that Tamar hired him in 2007 or so.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

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Reply #12 posted 05/29/19 8:28am

RodeoSchro

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langebleu said:

RodeoSchro said:



Me neither, but a guy who worked for him/played with him a few hundred times said he did at Paisley Park. I guess he just never did it on a record.


You referred to him as 'a session guitarist at Paisley in the '90s'. Do you have any information on what sessions / time period in the '90s and what being a session guitarist in this context involved? From recollection, I've not come across Rick Marcel having been connected with Prince.



I was guessing the '90's, based on his age and that he worked with Tamar in the mid-2000's. But that was just a guess; the info that jaawwnn posted indicates he was around in the late '80's.

To my knowledge, he's never been listed as playing on a Prince track. My understanding was that he was one of several musicians Prince always had on call, in case he wanted to jam and the Revolution or NPG members were unavailable.

I will say this - the cat can flat-out play Prince stuff better than anyone I've ever seen. And he goes deeeeeep into the catalogue, too.

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Reply #13 posted 05/29/19 8:29am

RodeoSchro

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Any info on what I called the "F It Up" jam?

Have you heard it/know the workout I'm talking about? Was it used on tour? Does it have a real name other than "F It Up"?

Second Funkiest White Man in America

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Reply #14 posted 05/29/19 10:59am

langebleu

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RodeoSchro said:

Any info on what I called the "F It Up" jam?

Have you heard it/know the workout I'm talking about? Was it used on tour? Does it have a real name other than "F It Up"?

I'm trying to fathom out what you are describing - can you refer to a rehearsal date or boot on which it is played, and I'll gove it a listen.

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Reply #15 posted 05/29/19 11:15am

fen

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langebleu said:

RodeoSchro said:

Any info on what I called the "F It Up" jam?

Have you heard it/know the workout I'm talking about? Was it used on tour? Does it have a real name other than "F It Up"?

I'm trying to fathom out what you are describing - can you refer to a rehearsal date or boot on which it is played, and I'll gove it a listen.

It's a thing he did during the Lovesexy Rehearsals to keep the band on its toes. Scorching guitar work and very funny - it's great. There are a couple of instances of it in circulation.

[Edited 5/29/19 12:11pm]

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Reply #16 posted 05/29/19 11:22am

fen

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RodeoSchro said:

1. Harmonies. WOW! Prince's harmonies are better than any others' that I've ever heard. That point is really driven home in "Forever in My Life", since you can hear the harmonies by themselves. But there are so, so, so many other songs with incredible harmonies. My question is this:

Did Prince use a harmonizer to recreate extra layers of a particular harmony, or did he record it two, three or four times to get the sound he wanted? I'm guessing the answer will be "both"; in fact, there are parts in "Forever in My Life" that might have been electronically reproduced, while at the same time there's another layer or two in there that are unquestionably live. Anyone have any professional insight on this?

2. "F It Up" jam. I love it! Especially the "Born in the USA" part and the "Yahoooo!" that follows it. Gives me chills every time I hear it; pure unadulterated joy.

My questions are: (a) does that workout have a name? I've always heard it called "F it Up" or "F*** it Up" since I got it 30 years ago. But I can't find anything like that in Princevault; and (b) did the band use that jam on tour? It segues into "It's Gonna Be a Beautiful Night" but I couldn't find a setlist that had anything resembling "F it Up" as an intro song into IGBABN. So, was it played on any tour(s) and if so, when?

3. I don't think I posted this but if I did, forgive the duplication. Awhile back I asked about some things I'd never seen Prince do, including using a capo or using open/alternate tunings. A guy named Rick Marcel was a session guitarist at Paisley in the '90's and we were talking the other day, so I asked him those questions. He said Prince often used a capo when jamming or recording at Paisley, and he also used alternate or open tunings. But Rick couldn't remember which songs used those tunings.

If you have any random questions about stuff like this, post it hear and let's see if we can answer them!

As far as I know, F*** It Up Jam was just an informal thing that he did during 1988 rehearsals to put the band through its paces (they never knew how long it would last - it's classic Prince humour). The subsequent jam is labelled as 80s-medley in my collection, running through a dizzying collection of covers. The sly dig at MJ always makes me laugh. I think it then goes into Chain Of Fools if I remember correctly, with Boni killing it, but I might be wrong. The whole sequence is a key example of why I love the rehearsal recordings so much. biggrin

[Edited 5/29/19 11:37am]

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Reply #17 posted 05/29/19 11:22am

RodeoSchro

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fen said:

langebleu said:

I'm trying to fathom out what you are describing - can you refer to a rehearsal date or boot on which it is played, and I'll gove it a listen.

It's thing he did during the Lovesexy Rehearsals to keep the band on its toes. Scorching guitar work and very funny - it's great. There are a couple of instances of it in circulation.



Thanks! That sounds about right.

He seems to running the horn section through its paces. Prince calls out "80's!" and snippets of "The Glamorous Life"; "A Love Bizzare"; "Wishing Well"; and "Born in the USA" are some of the snippets that are played.

The copy I have is undated (heck, I got it first on cassette, that's how old it is). It was called "F It Up" because it starts with Prince saying in a deep comedic voice something like, "Ok, then - f*** it up!"


.

[Edited 5/29/19 11:23am]

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Reply #18 posted 05/29/19 11:24am

RodeoSchro

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fen said:

RodeoSchro said:

1. Harmonies. WOW! Prince's harmonies are better than any others' that I've ever heard. That point is really driven home in "Forever in My Life", since you can hear the harmonies by themselves. But there are so, so, so many other songs with incredible harmonies. My question is this:

Did Prince use a harmonizer to recreate extra layers of a particular harmony, or did he record it two, three or four times to get the sound he wanted? I'm guessing the answer will be "both"; in fact, there are parts in "Forever in My Life" that might have been electronically reproduced, while at the same time there's another layer or two in there that are unquestionably live. Anyone have any professional insight on this?

2. "F It Up" jam. I love it! Especially the "Born in the USA" part and the "Yahoooo!" that follows it. Gives me chills every time I hear it; pure unadulterated joy.

My questions are: (a) does that workout have a name? I've always heard it called "F it Up" or "F*** it Up" since I got it 30 years ago. But I can't find anything like that in Princevault; and (b) did the band use that jam on tour? It segues into "It's Gonna Be a Beautiful Night" but I couldn't find a setlist that had anything resembling "F it Up" as an intro song into IGBABN. So, was it played on any tour(s) and if so, when?

3. I don't think I posted this but if I did, forgive the duplication. Awhile back I asked about some things I'd never seen Prince do, including using a capo or using open/alternate tunings. A guy named Rick Marcel was a session guitarist at Paisley in the '90's and we were talking the other day, so I asked him those questions. He said Prince often used a capo when jamming or recording at Paisley, and he also used alternate or open tunings. But Rick couldn't remember which songs used those tunings.

If you have any random questions about stuff like this, post it hear and let's see if we can answer them!

As far as I know, F*** It Up Jam was just an informal thing that he did during 1988 rehearsals to put the band through its paces (they never knew how long it would last - it's classic Prince humour). The subsequent jam is labelled as 80s-medley in my collection, running through a dizzingly collection of covers. The sly dig at MJ always makes me laugh. I think it then goes into Chain Of Fools if I remember correctly, with Boni killing it, but I might be wrong. The whole sequence is a key example of why I love the rehearsal recordings so much. biggrin




Awesome, thanks! The version I have segues into "It's Gonna Be a Beautiful Night".

Second Funkiest White Man in America

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Reply #19 posted 05/29/19 11:36am

fen

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RodeoSchro said:

fen said:

As far as I know, F*** It Up Jam was just an informal thing that he did during 1988 rehearsals to put the band through its paces (they never knew how long it would last - it's classic Prince humour). The subsequent jam is labelled as 80s-medley in my collection, running through a dizzingly collection of covers. The sly dig at MJ always makes me laugh. I think it then goes into Chain Of Fools if I remember correctly, with Boni killing it, but I might be wrong. The whole sequence is a key example of why I love the rehearsal recordings so much. biggrin




Awesome, thanks! The version I have segues into "It's Gonna Be a Beautiful Night".

I might be wrong about Chain of Fools - I haven't listened to it for a while, and there are a couple of versions in my collection. It's also possible that he used it in 87' or even before that, but I've only ever heard it in rehearsals dated during the Lovesexy tour.

[Edited 5/29/19 11:43am]

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Reply #20 posted 05/29/19 11:40am

fen

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RodeoSchro said:

fen said:

It's thing he did during the Lovesexy Rehearsals to keep the band on its toes. Scorching guitar work and very funny - it's great. There are a couple of instances of it in circulation.



Thanks! That sounds about right.

He seems to running the horn section through its paces. Prince calls out "80's!" and snippets of "The Glamorous Life"; "A Love Bizzare"; "Wishing Well"; and "Born in the USA" are some of the snippets that are played.

The copy I have is undated (heck, I got it first on cassette, that's how old it is). It was called "F It Up" because it starts with Prince saying in a deep comedic voice something like, "Ok, then - f*** it up!"


.

[Edited 5/29/19 11:23am]

The very brief, goofy rendition of "The Way You Make Me Feel" is hilarious. How tight was his band in 88'?! biggrin

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Reply #21 posted 05/29/19 11:54am

fen

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Just for those who haven’t heard it, Prince would launch into “F**k it Up Jam” and eventually stop the band on the one, saying “that’s enough, what’s the next song?” etc before shouting “F**k it Up” again and they’d be expected to pick up exactly where they left off. This could go on indefinitely, with him taunting them: “You don’t trust me do you?” and “No, seriously, what’s the next song… F**k it up!”. The longest version that I have has a really great, intense guitar solo in it, and it’s ridiculously funky.

[Edited 5/29/19 11:56am]

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Reply #22 posted 05/29/19 12:27pm

fen

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Yes, I’ve just checked and the version of “F**k It Up Jam” that RodeoSchro is referring to launches immediately into “80s Medley” (usually labelled as simply 80s Medley). The version that I really love runs at 7:38 – both can be found on Lovesexy Rehearsals Vol. II.

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Reply #23 posted 06/02/19 2:36am

zranta

i have to agree with you on For You. After his sad demise i relistened to For You in its entirity for the first time in ages. Amazed at how good it still sounded for a first album and that it was basically just Prince.

PeteSilas said:

i can only sort of answer the first question, I'm not sure if harmonizers were used in that era but, prince always did great harmony work, he didn't need any help, on his first album he did some of his best on For You. Not too many people that I'm aware of did the backing self vocals as well, not Marvin,(who was a pioneer) not Mj who did really good too, no one that I know of. In fact, I think it's one of his most influential facets of his music that affected r&b.

RodeoSchro said:

1. Harmonies. WOW! Prince's harmonies are better than any others' that I've ever heard. That point is really driven home in "Forever in My Life", since you can hear the harmonies by themselves. But there are so, so, so many other songs with incredible harmonies. My question is this:

Did Prince use a harmonizer to recreate extra layers of a particular harmony, or did he record it two, three or four times to get the sound he wanted? I'm guessing the answer will be "both"; in fact, there are parts in "Forever in My Life" that might have been electronically reproduced, while at the same time there's another layer or two in there that are unquestionably live. Anyone have any professional insight on this?

2. "F It Up" jam. I love it! Especially the "Born in the USA" part and the "Yahoooo!" that follows it. Gives me chills every time I hear it; pure unadulterated joy.

My questions are: (a) does that workout have a name? I've always heard it called "F it Up" or "F*** it Up" since I got it 30 years ago. But I can't find anything like that in Princevault; and (b) did the band use that jam on tour? It segues into "It's Gonna Be a Beautiful Night" but I couldn't find a setlist that had anything resembling "F it Up" as an intro song into IGBABN. So, was it played on any tour(s) and if so, when?

3. I don't think I posted this but if I did, forgive the duplication. Awhile back I asked about some things I'd never seen Prince do, including using a capo or using open/alternate tunings. A guy named Rick Marcel was a session guitarist at Paisley in the '90's and we were talking the other day, so I asked him those questions. He said Prince often used a capo when jamming or recording at Paisley, and he also used alternate or open tunings. But Rick couldn't remember which songs used those tunings.

If you have any random questions about stuff like this, post it hear and let's see if we can answer them!

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