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Thread started 09/24/19 11:12am

Graycap23

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Prince Estate sued for the Most Beautiful Girl in the world

https://au.lifestyle.yaho...soc_trk=fb

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Prince is at the centre of a bitter legal battle as representatives of publishing giant Warner Music mount a multi-million-dollar lawsuit against the late singer’s estate.

Lawyers for Warner Chappell Italy are suing the star’s estate for more than three million dollars, plus ongoing royalties, for his hit song The Most Beautiful Girl In The World.

In 1994, the track went to number one in Australia - where it remains one of the few places on earth it is allowed to be played commercially after Roman courts banned it from radio across Europe, ruling Prince had plagiarised it from Italian artists Bruno Bergonzi and Michele Vicino.

Legal action taken against Prince

Prince’s estate - headquartered at Universal Music in Sydney’s Woolloomooloo for legal purposes in Australia - was hit with the lawsuit in July.

Warner Chappell Music, represented by Australian law firm Mills Oakley, has asked the NSW Supreme Court to recognise four judgments made by appeal courts in Rome between 2008 and 2018.

I listened 2 this song, I don't hear anything close to Prince's song.

Do u?

FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent.
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Reply #1 posted 09/24/19 11:30am

ChickenMcNugge
ts

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Is it not allowed to be played commercially in the UK, then? I ask as I was driving while listening to Smooth Radio about a month ago, and the song came on... I could've crashed the car in shock, lol.

I did wonder what the latest news was with this case, though. I don't think I'd come across a news story on it any more recent than 2016...

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Reply #2 posted 09/24/19 12:07pm

luv4u

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Edmonton, AB - canada
Mod Goddess of the SNIP & BAN Making Moves - OF4S
Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture!
REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince
"I kind of wish there was a reason for Prince to make the site crash more" ~~ Ben
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Reply #3 posted 09/24/19 4:09pm

TrivialPursuit

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Gheezus, how many times do they keep ringing the same bell on this???

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
http://bit.ly/1D3FG2U
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Reply #4 posted 09/24/19 9:18pm

luv4u

Moderator

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TrivialPursuit said:

Gheezus, how many times do they keep ringing the same bell on this???


yep lol

Edmonton, AB - canada
Mod Goddess of the SNIP & BAN Making Moves - OF4S
Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture!
REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince
"I kind of wish there was a reason for Prince to make the site crash more" ~~ Ben
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Reply #5 posted 09/25/19 11:13am

Se7en

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I've tried to hear ANY similarity between the two songs, and I just can't. Not even a little snippet.

I'm surprised this ever held up in court. I would not want to be tried of anything serious in Italy!

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Reply #6 posted 09/25/19 2:05pm

langebleu

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^ The basic melodic phrase is the same (albeit in a different key).

ALT+PLS+RTN: Pure as a pane of ice. It's a gift.
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Reply #7 posted 09/25/19 5:44pm

Graycap23

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langebleu said:

^ The basic melodic phrase is the same (albeit in a different key).

I tried 2 hear it........I can't.

FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent.
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Reply #8 posted 09/25/19 6:54pm

WhisperingDand
elions

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Graycap23 said:

langebleu said:

^ The basic melodic phrase is the same (albeit in a different key).

I tried 2 hear it........I can't.

Listen to the hook/chorus of "Takin' Me to Paradise" 1:15 in vs. the hook/chorus of TMBGITW:

.

"Now (Could you be) I'll be painting your name in the sky (the most beautiful girl in the world)"

[Edited 9/25/19 18:56pm]

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Reply #9 posted 09/25/19 7:33pm

Graycap23

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WhisperingDandelions said:

Graycap23 said:

I tried 2 hear it........I can't.

Listen to the hook/chorus of "Takin' Me to Paradise" 1:15 in vs. the hook/chorus of TMBGITW:

.

"Now (Could you be) I'll be painting your name in the sky (the most beautiful girl in the world)"

[Edited 9/25/19 18:56pm]

I'll check it out. Thanks

FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent.
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Reply #10 posted 09/26/19 12:49pm

jfenster

could Warners be tryin to bust his balls because he released it without them????

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Reply #11 posted 09/26/19 1:16pm

SoulAlive

it's hard to believe that Prince actually heard that terrible song and decided to steal from it confused something about this case seems strange

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Reply #12 posted 09/26/19 1:31pm

OperatingTheta
n

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SoulAlive said:

it's hard to believe that Prince actually heard that terrible song and decided to steal from it confused something about this case seems strange



If there is any genuine similarity it's likely just a coincidence. What's the likelihood that Prince even heard their lousy song or knew of their existence?

Genuine coincidences and similarities happen in unrelated songs all the time.
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Reply #13 posted 09/26/19 1:45pm

SoulAlive

OperatingThetan said:

SoulAlive said:

it's hard to believe that Prince actually heard that terrible song and decided to steal from it confused something about this case seems strange

If there is any genuine similarity it's likely just a coincidence. What's the likelihood that Prince even heard their lousy song or knew of their existence? Genuine coincidences and similarities happen in unrelated songs all the time.

Exactly!

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Reply #14 posted 09/26/19 1:57pm

Graycap23

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SoulAlive said:

it's hard to believe that Prince actually heard that terrible song and decided to steal from it confused something about this case seems strange

agreed. Judge probably related to whomever filed the suit.

FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent.
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Reply #15 posted 09/26/19 8:04pm

WhisperingDand
elions

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OperatingThetan said:

SoulAlive said:

it's hard to believe that Prince actually heard that terrible song and decided to steal from it confused something about this case seems strange

If there is any genuine similarity it's likely just a coincidence. What's the likelihood that Prince even heard their lousy song or knew of their existence? Genuine coincidences and similarities happen in unrelated songs all the time.

I mean, he did listen to a fair amount of music.

A melodic coincidence is probably more likely, but what do you (or others) feel about the musical "coincidence" of "Colonized Mind" vs. this Miriam Makeba track?

https://www.youtube.com/w...SoVQ3WwzaI

[Edited 9/26/19 20:07pm]

[Edited 9/26/19 20:08pm]

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Reply #16 posted 09/26/19 8:17pm

WhisperingDand
elions

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1983 Italy.... he never went to Italy between '83 and '93? Is it that far-fetched he might have heard it one day in passing? I'm not saying he heard it and then mapped out a plan, but, musicians hearing something and it coming out later unintentionally.... Like portions of "All the Midnights in the World" are clearly "Here Comes Santa Claus." Faster tempo guitar riff of "Witness 4 the Prosecution" sounds like "That's the Way (I Like It)". Bassline of "Mia Bocca" inspired by the verse synth bass of "Cars". It happens.

[Edited 9/27/19 20:19pm]

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Reply #17 posted 09/27/19 2:36am

steakfinger

jfenster said:

could Warners be tryin to bust his balls because he released it without them????


No.
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Reply #18 posted 09/27/19 3:12pm

Marrk

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WhisperingDandelions said:

1983 Italy.... he never went to Italy between '83 and '93?

How would anyone possibly know that? safe to assume if he wanted a weekend in Milan or Venice, he could just hop on a plane anytiime. Not that i believe this non-story.

Yeah, we'll, we'll try to imagine what silence looks like.
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Reply #19 posted 09/27/19 8:17pm

WhisperingDand
elions

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Marrk said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

1983 Italy.... he never went to Italy between '83 and '93?

How would anyone possibly know that?

Erm, actually, I kind of considered that a bit of a rhetorical question because everyone with an internet browser could (possibly) know that.

Like PrinceVault just looking up Lovesexy Tour '88,

https://www.princevault.c...esexy_Tour

He was in Italy from July 15-23rd in 1988, at the very least.... Literally everyone can look up this information, it's certainly possible. My question was framed more like: of course he went to Italy, he toured in Italy, it's well-documented he toured in Italy at some point from '83 to '93.... And said "some point" can be easily researched and referenced....

[Edited 9/27/19 20:21pm]

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Reply #20 posted 09/27/19 9:45pm

SoulAlive

I truly don’t believe that Prince has ever heard that song before.It’s not as if it was a big hit single.
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Reply #21 posted 09/30/19 11:43pm

AaronReturn200
5

I think this might be reason the official upload of the video was removed in June 2018, and had 2 million views at the times. Way to go VEVO, not!

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Reply #22 posted 10/01/19 8:48am

TheLotus

WhisperingDandelions said:

OperatingThetan said:

SoulAlive said: If there is any genuine similarity it's likely just a coincidence. What's the likelihood that Prince even heard their lousy song or knew of their existence? Genuine coincidences and similarities happen in unrelated songs all the time.

I mean, he did listen to a fair amount of music.

A melodic coincidence is probably more likely, but what do you (or others) feel about the musical "coincidence" of "Colonized Mind" vs. this Miriam Makeba track?

https://www.youtube.com/w...SoVQ3WwzaI

[Edited 9/26/19 20:07pm]

[Edited 9/26/19 20:08pm]

.

Definietly some similarity there... that other song? Not so much.

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Reply #23 posted 10/01/19 9:16am

jaawwnn

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It's there but it's totally a coincidence, it's very unlikely you wouldn notice it if it wasn't pointed out. No true musician or songwriter would be concerned about something sounding a tiny bit like something else, it's how everything works - this has always been nothing more than someone chancing their arm. Takin' Me to Paradise is already an attempt to rewrite Bette Davis Eyes as it is.

The Miriam Makeba one is just short of a cover though, he even used the lyrics, i'm not sure what Prince was at not crediting her there. I hope he was doing something behind the scenes there.




[Edited 10/1/19 9:27am]

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Reply #24 posted 10/01/19 9:39am

darkroman

Hmmm... tough call really.

It sort of is and sort of isn't.

I can force myself to hear TMBGITW but only because I am forcing my ears.

In these cases don't the courts usually engage a scientist to look at the wave structures, notes etc.

It's odd it's Warner's causing the trouble and just for a tiny amount of money.

So Warners should pay the money because then Warners can release the Gold Experience.

Doesn't make sense!


cool

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Reply #25 posted 10/01/19 10:27am

jjam

A musicologist would have a much stronger case for copyright infringement with this case than Blurred Lines (basically a case lost on the basis of stealing a vibe which is ridiculous). But, as mentioned, the melodic phrase in question is very common - indeed, when I first heard TMBGITW, I loved it but thought that it was the most derivative thing that Prince had released in ages. And it doesn't help that the phrase in question is used through the whole song (you know, Prince's well used "trick" of the chorus having the same tune as the verse). But, ultimately, this is a bullshit case.

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Reply #26 posted 10/01/19 10:36am

Kares

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Let's get something straight: the most important melody line in TMBGITW is when he sings the words "the most beautiful girl in the world" – and that is IDENTICAL to the the most important melody line in the chorus of 'Takin' Me To Paradise'. Anyone who cannot hear that should get their ears checked.
It's not only the melody (sequence of notes) itself, but the rhythm pattern of those two melody lines are identical too.

.

That is not the question though. The question is whether Prince has
a: knowingly, deliberately copied that melody from the Italian guys, or
b: he has come up with it on his own by accident, unaware of the Italian song, or

c: he has heard TMTP, but by the time he was writing TMBGITW, he has come up with the melody line unaware of the source of his inspiration.
.
In my opinion, any of the above 3 scenarios could have happened, easily, and after all these years, it will be extremely difficult to prove any version. Obviously Prince didn't NEED to steal anyone's tune as he himself was more than capable of coming up with original ones, however, I see no reason to rule out that occasionally he did knowingly steal at least some parts. Similarly, I see no reason to rule out "b" or "c" version either.

.

Anyone who's ever composed anything knows from experience that melodies can pop up in your head and you're thinking you're written something cool – only to realize an hour or day later that it was in fact something you've heard before from someone else. And sometimes you'll only realize this after you've released it as your own. It happens.
.
Conscious stealing happens a lot too, even when it comes to prolific composers as Prince. You go ahead and steal that line thinking all the rest you've composed and arranged in your song will make it undeniably an original that could never be challenged by anyone. Yet, sometimes it will be.

.

Also: different people coming up with identical melody lines (with identical rhythm) totally independently happens a lot too. It's far from being unheard of. I know this from experience too: I wrote a song when I was about 15 (but never released it) that had a chorus almost identical to the chorus of a Top10 hit (by Duran Duran) that came out several years later. It was funny to hear it on the radio – but of course Duran Duran had never even had the chance of hearing my version that I had only taped onto a cassette for myself. Had I released it, I would have had a chance of taking them to court, but of course I still would've had to prove that there was a genuine chance of them hearing it prior to writing their song.

.

So all three scenarios are perfectly possible and we simply don't know what really happened. My guess is that the courts won't be able to tell for sure either.
.

[Edited 10/1/19 10:42am]

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Reply #27 posted 10/01/19 10:41am

Kares

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darkroman said:

It's odd it's Warner's causing the trouble and just for a tiny amount of money.
So Warners should pay the money because then Warners can release the Gold Experience.

Doesn't make sense!

.

The case is between 2 parties who own the publishing rights to the 2 songs in question. It has nothing to do with Warners.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

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Reply #28 posted 10/01/19 11:10am

jaawwnn

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Kares said:

Let's get something straight: the most important melody line in TMBGITW is when he sings the words "the most beautiful girl in the world" – and that is IDENTICAL to the the most important melody line in the chorus of 'Takin' Me To Paradise'. Anyone who cannot hear that should get their ears checked.
It's not only the melody (sequence of notes) itself, but the rhythm pattern of those two melody lines are identical too.

.

absolutely, in the most tedious legal way of viewing a song this is absolutely correct and that's what the case is based upon. But of course the production, the feel of the song etc. is completely different, the most "important" part of the song is subjective in every other sense.

In all honesty, I couldn't care less if he ripped it off or not, Take Me to Paradise is a third rate Italo-Disco track that has deservedly languished in obscurity, dude should be grateful Prince took his melody and used it in a decent track.

Anyway, I believe the usual defense for this kind of thing is to prove that the melody existed before the first track in a case as well, I wonder if anyone can dig something up?

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Reply #29 posted 10/01/19 12:28pm

ChickenMcNugge
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AaronReturn2005 said:

I think this might be reason the official upload of the video was removed in June 2018, and had 2 million views at the times. Way to go VEVO, not!

I'm surprised there was ever an official YouTube upload of the video at all, given that this case has been rumbling along since 1995 as far as I'm aware.

Ah well. I'm starting now to save up for the big Gold Experience reissue of 2037 when this saga finally gets sorted. I wonder what'll be resolved first, this or Brexit... lol

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