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Thread started 08/10/20 1:12am

SoftSkarlettLo
visa

Would you describe Prince as a neo-drag queen?

OK, this is not a discussion about if Prince was gay or not. I find Prince's entertainment and drag queens style similar - for example, when Prince and Morris exchanged insults/ putdowns, Prince's effeminate appearance and behaviour.

Of course, Prince didn't go completely to extending what is a woman like drag queens. Consider this - you have a man who wears makeup like a woman and dresses kinda like a woman, yet has a street attitude and will hurl insults to anyone in their way - while still putting on a great show. Quite similar to drag queens.

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Reply #1 posted 08/10/20 1:37am

udo

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You insentive clod!

How can you call someone a 'drag queen' in these times of LGBTQ-whateverness?

You should be using different wordings to not insult, yes, certain individuals.

Also you should use different wordings to be more correct, more precise.

So please try again. lol

.

And I do know that insulted people choose to be insulted.

.

So, no, I would not call Prince a drag queen.

Not even in his most femiinine outfit. (please show it)

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #2 posted 08/10/20 3:02am

mynameisnotsus
an

Well he had Charisma Uniqueness Nerve and Talent so I have no problem with bestowing the honor of drag queen upon him razz
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Reply #3 posted 08/10/20 4:41am

jaawwnn

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short answer no.

From what I can work out Prince was always dressed in a masculine way from his point of view. The makeup thing had been pretty standard in rocknroll for a long time and only really falling away in the homophobic AIDS-fearing Reagan era, obviously which is where Prince was in his prime, but there's a big difference between growing up in the 60s and 70s and growing up in the 80s and beyond.

That's just me musing, it's actually a huge question. He also liked to fuck with people.

And you haven't really defined what you mean by "neo"

[Edited 8/10/20 4:42am]

"I think people ought to know that we're anti-fascist, we're anti-violence, we're anti-racist and we're pro-creative. We're against ignorance."
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Reply #4 posted 08/10/20 9:47am

ufoclub

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Certainly that cover art for Lovesexy's tourbook seemed "drag".

But outside of that it seems to fall into the theatrical extravagance of Liberace or Elton John, but all referencing his musical influences, or fashion forward designs, often designs originally for women, but re-tailored to fit a man.

I still remember him coming out at one of the latter shows at Paisley Park in 2002 to sing "Empty Room" in an outfit (not a dress) with long long royal wedding style train dragging behind. I wish there was pic! I think it was red. It was outrageous theatricallity for a very theatrical and dramatic song.

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Reply #5 posted 08/10/20 10:31am

TrivialPursuit

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SoftSkarlettLovisa said:

OK, this is not a discussion about if Prince was gay or not. I find Prince's entertainment and drag queens style similar - for example, when Prince and Morris exchanged insults/ putdowns, Prince's effeminate appearance and behaviour.

Of course, Prince didn't go completely to extending what is a woman like drag queens. Consider this - you have a man who wears makeup like a woman and dresses kinda like a woman, yet has a street attitude and will hurl insults to anyone in their way - while still putting on a great show. Quite similar to drag queens.


This is one of the lowest, most ignorant, and homophobic posts. I don't know why it seems pertinent to delve into such depths of ludicrousness. Who thinks drag queens just wear makeup and hurls insults?? We could fill a room with what clearly isn't known, by some, about drag queens, and apparently a small warehouse with what seems to be unknown about Prince.

When you know better, you do better. And now you know better.


"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #6 posted 08/10/20 11:07am

Nonamesfan

No.

And that's a rude question.

[Edited 8/10/20 11:09am]

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Reply #7 posted 08/10/20 12:20pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

No. He never tried to impersonate a woman.

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
#IDEFINEME
It’s unloving and selfish to be easily offended
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Reply #8 posted 08/10/20 12:25pm

bonatoc

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Men in show-business have been wearing make-up since ages.

Prince had natural Bambi eyes, he just enhanced them.

Check out the foundation and eye-liner on this guy:




Then there's Little Richard.
Now there's your "Neo Drag Queen".




The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #9 posted 08/10/20 12:43pm

bonatoc

avatar

You P.C. Police Orgers really need a Bill Maher session.
You sound pathetically paranoid and defensive.
Aggressive, even.
No need to resort to "lowest", "most ignorant", "homophobic" or "rude".
Get off your platform boots.

The OP was referring to the caricature Prince could sometimes project,
comparing it to the caricature Drag Queens project,
because yes, they put up a show, that's what they do,
it's a night life role, they impersonate an enhanced, exaggerated persona
and it's assumed as such by themselves in the first place.

You don't see them going to their day job dressed in fuchsia glitters.

And fair enough, Prince sometimes projected an image close to caricature.
It's called entertainment.
Rarely a man in show-business
has put so much gloop on their eyes.
It made him sexy as hell, but still, that's some serious make-up.

And the OP isn't that far gone. A Drag Queen claims
his masculinity behind the extravaganza, otherwise we're talking transsexual.
It's assumed that you'll find balls under the skirt.

It's a manifesto, with fun (night-life) as its core.
Prince did wear make-up and lace props, he was extravagant
yet he was still presenting a very masculine stance.
Just as Little Richard homosexuality left little doubt.

Embodying a caricature, wearing a mask,
that's what showmen and women,
whatever their physical sex, do (except for the boring bland ones).

It's theater, not necessarily their identity.
Sure, it can be, but then it ceases to be entertainment.


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as__31243.1524309128.jpg?c=2&imbypass=on

versacehands.jpg

3113d0529f.jpg

scan0050.jpg


Having said that, the OP has clearly very little knowledge
of what sort of persona a Drag Queen is.



[Edited 8/10/20 13:07pm]

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #10 posted 08/10/20 1:04pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

The closest to looking drag is the Gold Era photo the others, especially the ones from 1979 are not even a shadow of drag

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
#IDEFINEME
It’s unloving and selfish to be easily offended
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Reply #11 posted 08/10/20 1:05pm

onlyforaminute

ufoclub said:

Certainly that cover art for Lovesexy's tourbook seemed "drag".

But outside of that it seems to fall into the theatrical extravagance of Liberace or Elton John, but all referencing his musical influences, or fashion forward designs, often designs originally for women, but re-tailored to fit a man.



I still remember him coming out at one of the latter shows at Paisley Park in 2002 to sing "Empty Room" in an outfit (not a dress) with long long royal wedding style train dragging behind. I wish there was pic! I think it was red. It was outrageous theatricallity for a very theatrical and dramatic song.




I'd say this. Especially as someone who grew up being fascinated by Liberace, still am actually, he definitely was a showman, orientation aside. Wish I could post pictures,the similarities are uncanny.
If you carry the egg basket do not dance.

Do good, then throw it into the sea.

#octavia tried to tell us
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Reply #12 posted 08/10/20 1:10pm

bonatoc

avatar

OldFriends4Sale said:

The closest to looking drag is the Gold Era photo the others, especially the ones from 1979 are not even a shadow of drag


Fair enough.
Ru Paul he ain't.

But they're still extravagant, which is the foundation.
Add some feathers and lipstick and we're getting closer.

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #13 posted 08/10/20 1:23pm

mbdtyler

udo said:

You insentive clod!

How can you call someone a 'drag queen' in these times of LGBTQ-whateverness?

You should be using different wordings to not insult, yes, certain individuals.

Also you should use different wordings to be more correct, more precise.

So please try again. lol

.

And I do know that insulted people choose to be insulted.

.

So, no, I would not call Prince a drag queen.

Not even in his most femiinine outfit. (please show it)

You're acting like the LGBTQ+ community is overly sensitive, but you're the one crusading against them because you don't like using proper pronouns and terminology lol I can't deal with this

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Reply #14 posted 08/10/20 1:34pm

bonatoc

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Disclaimer: certainly no Drag Queen outfit,
but we're getting pretty close to "over the top",
which is what Drag Queens look for as an effect.

Sure, the thread is all provocation that borders on trolling,
but Prince's extravaganza remains an interesting topic,
because the reason for it is not easy to pinpoint.





How far can a man go in exploring his feminity before gender issues arise?
Even in this, women are treated unfairly, because the moment
they stop wearing make-up and cut their hair, they're butch.
Conditioning is a hard thing to shake off, for most.

We're back to the social identity question Prince has always brought upfront,
since when he first started exploring with his camera,
on the cover of "The Beautiful Ones" (the bio).

I still stand on the theory that Prince was going for appearing as "partner in crime" to women.
The "I'm on your side" kind of nod. "I can lend you my mascara".
"I understand you". That was his approach in seduction, because
he couldn't count on being six-feet tall, or on blatant masculine attributes (as definied in the seventies and eighties).


The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #15 posted 08/10/20 1:59pm

ufoclub

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This photo qualifies as drag style. Anyone who is not a Prince fanatic would agree. But I think I've only seen one other photo that approaches it, and that might have been an outtake that was never used:

PRINCE_LOVESEXY%2B88-3473.jpg

[Edited 8/10/20 14:50pm]

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Reply #16 posted 08/10/20 2:02pm

lavendardrumma
chine

In hindsight, pretty much. But nobody really looked at it that way and intent is everything.

Also drag can mean a lot of things, it doesn't mean you have to 100% impersonate a woman.

I don't know how every one of us hasn't had that moment of looking back at Prince and thinking "He didn't just push it, that was full on".

The Morris and Prince banter isn't drag shade but everyone is taking a lot from Little Richard there.

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Reply #17 posted 08/10/20 2:24pm

bonatoc

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lavendardrummachine said:


The Morris and Prince banter isn't drag shade


...and if the OP was referring to the scene in Purple Rain where the Kid abducts Apollonia,
that IS homophobic and better left in the trash, along with the girl in the dumpster scene.

For all his Coming of Age/A Star Is Born qualities,
Purple Rain had some pretty shitty lines and situations here and there.

Kudos to Morris for defusing them with the right
amount of distanciation ("Such nastiness!").

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #18 posted 08/10/20 3:16pm

kingricefan

Didn't Wendy refer to him as a 'fancy lesbian' at one point?

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Reply #19 posted 08/10/20 3:41pm

LonelyStarfish

The term you're looking for is gender fluid and i would say he was.
Music is music, ultimately. If it makes you feel good, cool.

My YouTube channel
https://www.youtube.com/c...pp=desktop
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Reply #20 posted 08/10/20 4:49pm

onlyforaminute

LonelyStarfish said:

The term you're looking for is gender fluid and i would say he was.



Controversy!
If you carry the egg basket do not dance.

Do good, then throw it into the sea.

#octavia tried to tell us
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Reply #21 posted 08/11/20 2:32am

jaawwnn

avatar

ufoclub said:

This photo qualifies as drag style. Anyone who is not a Prince fanatic would agree. But I think I've only seen one other photo that approaches it, and that might have been an outtake that was never used:

PRINCE_LOVESEXY%2B88-3473.jpg

[Edited 8/10/20 14:50pm]

Maybe yeah, but I seriously doubt Prince considred it drag.

"I think people ought to know that we're anti-fascist, we're anti-violence, we're anti-racist and we're pro-creative. We're against ignorance."
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Reply #22 posted 08/11/20 3:35am

udo

avatar

jaawwnn said:

ufoclub said:

This photo qualifies as drag style. Anyone who is not a Prince fanatic would agree. But I think I've only seen one other photo that approaches it, and that might have been an outtake that was never used:

PRINCE_LOVESEXY%2B88-3473.jpg

[Edited 8/10/20 14:50pm]

Maybe yeah, but I seriously doubt Prince considred it drag.

.

What elements in this picture do some consider drag? (to get things clear)

I see no attempt to look female.

It is just the makeup. Perhaps the type of gloves.

So if he were made up diffrently it would be a non-issue.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #23 posted 08/11/20 3:42am

jaawwnn

avatar

udo said:

jaawwnn said:

Maybe yeah, but I seriously doubt Prince considered it drag.

.

What elements in this picture do some consider drag? (to get things clear)

I see no attempt to look female.

It is just the makeup. Perhaps the type of gloves.

So if he were made up diffrently it would be a non-issue.

Yeah, the face makeup and the gloves and the big earrings.

Listen, I know it's not drag, and you know it's not drag, but I also know my mates and some of them would look at that and go "why is he dressed like a girl?"

"I think people ought to know that we're anti-fascist, we're anti-violence, we're anti-racist and we're pro-creative. We're against ignorance."
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Reply #24 posted 08/11/20 4:45am

udo

avatar

jaawwnn said:

udo said:

.

What elements in this picture do some consider drag? (to get things clear)

I see no attempt to look female.

It is just the makeup. Perhaps the type of gloves.

So if he were made up diffrently it would be a non-issue.

Yeah, the face makeup and the gloves and the big earrings.

Listen, I know it's not drag, and you know it's not drag, but I also know my mates and some of them would look at that and go "why is he dressed like a girl?"

.

The earring (singular) could also be in a SOTT era photo of him wearing a collared sweater type thing and raise no eyebrows.

See this.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #25 posted 08/11/20 5:06am

jaawwnn

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Yes, good point, single earring. I still come across things about Prince where people say IIWYG is a "gender-bending" song, even though it absolutely is not. I don't know what to tell you, some people are super judgemental and need to put things in little boxes (e.g. "Prince is a neo-drag-queen")

"I think people ought to know that we're anti-fascist, we're anti-violence, we're anti-racist and we're pro-creative. We're against ignorance."
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Reply #26 posted 08/11/20 7:37am

udo

avatar

jaawwnn said:

Yes, good point, single earring. I still come across things about Prince where people say IIWYG is a "gender-bending" song, even though it absolutely is not. I don't know what to tell you, some people are super judgemental and need to put things in little boxes (e.g. "Prince is a neo-drag-queen")

.

There are no boxes.

Everything is a slippery slope.

Even digital truth is marred by relativity.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #27 posted 08/11/20 8:39am

NouveauDance

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Prince played with gender norms, that doesn't make him a drag queen. I think the first question you have to ask is did Prince consider his art to be drag? All signs would probably point to no.

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Reply #28 posted 08/11/20 9:12am

endiadj

The oversensitivity has gotten out of hand. Some are offended by every damn thing. People are afraid to say anything now for fear of using a word that's code for this or that or being labeled this or that or being cancelled for having a differing opinion. We'll be living in a stepford society soon.
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Reply #29 posted 08/11/20 9:31am

ufoclub

avatar

udo said:

jaawwnn said:

Maybe yeah, but I seriously doubt Prince considred it drag.

.

What elements in this picture do some consider drag? (to get things clear)

I see no attempt to look female.

It is just the makeup. Perhaps the type of gloves.

So if he were made up diffrently it would be a non-issue.

On the Lovesexy tourbook all this looks "woman" mode: His hair, the traditional female makeup that is exagerrated into unnatural colors, the gloves, the sequin background, and the attitude. All seem overtly drag. I think this was prince trying to do a drag look for sure. And a worn out, frazzled drag look too!

But the original post was could Prince be considered to be in a neo-drag kind of theme in his normal Prince style.

Well maybe the truth comes out when you see comedians or impersontators doing their version of Prince. Without the actual person, and just the details of style, you see what the elements are and how they fall upon average perception.

0dc248d370cbbed37d92fd7a2fb410f3.jpg

In contrast this is not drag:

f7233f9a32ca220c6b5efbca85bd26a3.jpg

[Edited 8/11/20 9:32am]

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