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Reply #120 posted 10/01/20 7:43pm

mynameisnotsus
an

There's a tiny warble briefly on one track. And they pitch might be ever so slightly slow on a live recording. It is being disproportionately presented as if it's some kind of disaster. It's not.
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Reply #121 posted 10/01/20 8:25pm

masaba

With the amount of boots I've listened to I've become more or less impervious to sound quality or sound issues. Shit like the beginning of erotic city on PReluxe or brickwalling I'll notice, but I'll this other stuff, don't know how y'all even catch it.
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Reply #122 posted 10/01/20 9:14pm

databank

avatar

masaba said:

With the amount of boots I've listened to I've become more or less impervious to sound quality or sound issues. Shit like the beginning of erotic city on PReluxe or brickwalling I'll notice, but I'll this other stuff, don't know how y'all even catch it.

.

It's funny you'd say that because what y'all call brickwalling, I've never heard.

.

End of the day, between an artist's choice to brickwall or some sloppy job by some label exec, I'll take the artist's choice. As someone said in another thread, for all his dubious decisions, Prince never released a record that was out of pitch.

.

mynameisnotsusan said:

There's a tiny warble briefly on one track. And they pitch might be ever so slightly slow on a live recording. It is being disproportionately presented as if it's some kind of disaster. It's not.

.

No one in their right mind spoke of a disaster. It's just, like, OK, it's an OK job, it could have been better.

.

And what do you think Michael Howe's monthly salary is? Just come-up with a figure. What do you think? 1000? 2000? I don't think so. How much should you get away with if you're being paid whatever people in this position are getting paid?

.

This is not an ad hominem attack, I have nothing against Mr. Howe as a person, for all I know he may be a very nice person and someone I'd like to call a friend, IDK, and I understand and respect that some people work their ass to get high salaries because they have skills.

.

For all I know, Howe wants to make it right and WB or Comerica won't let him, it's happened before and it's very possible that they told him to frankenstein songs and save costs over pitch control. IDK.

.

But either he has the skills and his employers won't ley him use them, or he doesn't have the skills.

.

Either way, someone fucked up at some point in the process, because it wouldn't have taken that much more effort to avoid many of the problems we've been encountering for the last 3 years.

.

Now y'all wanna say it don't matter? I can't disagree if it don't matter to you. But it matters to some of us. And don't get me wrong: it don't necessarily matter in terms of enjoyment, hell, I'd never have known about these pitch issues if others hadn't told me, and we know some fans here who were baffled to learn about frankensteining and loved the mixes as they were. Hell, there were even Orgers at the time who said "huh? what's the problem with Erotic City"? (4 realz!!)

.

Some of us are pissed because we believe the material should be treated as holy gold, because it's an important artist's lecacy, because we believe it's important by itself and way beyond our own selfish entertainment nod

.

Anyone is, of course, free to disagree and say we make a fuss over little things and that in the grand scheme of things, it's nothing compared to animal cruelty or poverty in India. True. Except animal cruelty and poverty in India are extremely difficult problems to solve. Cashing in a major label exec's salary and doing the SDEs right isn't.

.

[Edited 10/2/20 3:11am]

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #123 posted 10/01/20 9:50pm

mynameisnotsus
an

...
[Edited 10/2/20 2:53am]
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Reply #124 posted 10/02/20 9:04am

GeurtWalraven

This Utrecht concert (and many others) are not recorded for public release. While the audience is hardly audible, they simply didnt set-up microphones towards the audience. My guess is, it was recorded for examining purposes only, musically. Either way, the estate put together a very well selected song selection, with the Utrecht and Paisley Park concerts, for covering the SOTT era. While you cant satisfy everybody, still there's always something to find, for complaining. Which won't change anything. Take it as it is.

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Reply #125 posted 10/02/20 12:41pm

glamlife2

databank said:

masaba said:

With the amount of boots I've listened to I've become more or less impervious to sound quality or sound issues. Shit like the beginning of erotic city on PReluxe or brickwalling I'll notice, but I'll this other stuff, don't know how y'all even catch it.

.

It's funny you'd say that because what y'all call brickwalling, I've never heard.

.

End of the day, between an artist's choice to brickwall or some sloppy job by some label exec, I'll take the artist's choice. As someone said in another thread, for all his dubious decisions, Prince never released a record that was out of pitch.

.

mynameisnotsusan said:

There's a tiny warble briefly on one track. And they pitch might be ever so slightly slow on a live recording. It is being disproportionately presented as if it's some kind of disaster. It's not.

.

No one in their right mind spoke of a disaster. It's just, like, OK, it's an OK job, it could have been better.

.

And what do you think Michael Howe's monthly salary is? Just come-up with a figure. What do you think? 1000? 2000? I don't think so. How much should you get away with if you're being paid whatever people in this position are getting paid?

.

This is not an ad hominem attack, I have nothing against Mr. Howe as a person, for all I know he may be a very nice person and someone I'd like to call a friend, IDK, and I understand and respect that some people work their ass to get high salaries because they have skills.

.

For all I know, Howe wants to make it right and WB or Comerica won't let him, it's happened before and it's very possible that they told him to frankenstein songs and save costs over pitch control. IDK.

.

But either he has the skills and his employers won't ley him use them, or he doesn't have the skills.

.

Either way, someone fucked up at some point in the process, because it wouldn't have taken that much more effort to avoid many of the problems we've been encountering for the last 3 years.

.

Now y'all wanna say it don't matter? I can't disagree if it don't matter to you. But it matters to some of us. And don't get me wrong: it don't necessarily matter in terms of enjoyment, hell, I'd never have known about these pitch issues if others hadn't told me, and we know some fans here who were baffled to learn about frankensteining and loved the mixes as they were. Hell, there were even Orgers at the time who said "huh? what's the problem with Erotic City"? (4 realz!!)

.

Some of us are pissed because we believe the material should be treated as holy gold, because it's an important artist's lecacy, because we believe it's important by itself and way beyond our own selfish entertainment nod

.

Anyone is, of course, free to disagree and say we make a fuss over little things and that in the grand scheme of things, it's nothing compared to animal cruelty or poverty in India. True. Except animal cruelty and poverty in India are extremely difficult problems to solve. Cashing in a major label exec's salary and doing the SDEs right isn't.

.

[Edited 10/2/20 3:11am]

I agree that it's important for Prince's legacy. The issues haven't curtailed my enjoyment of the set. But I think it's fair to expect immaculate attention to sound quality (which includes speed issues) at these prices. Luckily I can make adjustments with audio editing software - but we shouldn't need to do this. I do have to give kudos on the vinyl pressings though - the original album and most of the Vault material etc. sounds awesome and each vinyl comes in a high quality protective sleeve.

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Reply #126 posted 10/02/20 12:45pm

ReddishBrownOn
e

It's a shame that Prince never recorded a cover of the Chas 'n' Dave classic 'There Ain't No Pleasing You'. That would sum up the attitude of much of the online community towards these posthumous releases.

I'm not saying that they have been flawless, but the bigger picture is that a lot of incredible new stuff has been released - for our pleasure - in a short space of time.

Or, as Prince DID sing once, 'be glad 4 what u have and what u've got'.
It's been too long since you've had your ass kicked properly:


http://www.facebook.com/p...9196044697

My band - listen and 'like' us, if you please
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Reply #127 posted 10/04/20 12:58am

udo

avatar

parker said:

udo said:

.

So for mere mortals, how can we find out?

When a professional confirms something is incorrect is all I’ve been depending on. That and hearing how it sounds off. Don’t think there’s a way to do what you’re asking.

.

E.g. When someone on the stage playes an A, with no ther sounds overlapping, we can simply check the frequency on our discs.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #128 posted 10/04/20 1:17am

BartVanHemelen

avatar

ReddishBrownOne said:

It's a shame that Prince never recorded a cover of the Chas 'n' Dave classic 'There Ain't No Pleasing You'. That would sum up the attitude of much of the online community towards these posthumous releases. I'm not saying that they have been flawless, but the bigger picture is that a lot of incredible new stuff has been released - for our pleasure - in a short space of time. Or, as Prince DID sing once, 'be glad 4 what u have and what u've got'.

.

Amazing how you lot continue the "just be glad you're getting something" bullshit.

.

People are paying good money for this. They shouldn't need to put up with amateur technical hiccups etc. That these shortcomings emerged almost immediately upon people first hearing these things says plenty. According to Duane Tudahl, they work on these kinds of sets for a year, and yet none of them even noted these shortcomings? Maybe they should hire experts instead of paying Bitton to interview Dave Chappelle for an absolutely worthless waste of space, or pay Lenny for some fluff piece that adds nothing.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #129 posted 10/04/20 1:20am

udo

avatar

If the speed is off, one could show us in a small article with some pics how it is proven.

This could convince us and add another issue for WB on the list of flaws for the SDE releases...

[Edited 10/4/20 3:27am]

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #130 posted 10/04/20 1:40am

databank

avatar

BartVanHemelen said:



ReddishBrownOne said:


It's a shame that Prince never recorded a cover of the Chas 'n' Dave classic 'There Ain't No Pleasing You'. That would sum up the attitude of much of the online community towards these posthumous releases. I'm not saying that they have been flawless, but the bigger picture is that a lot of incredible new stuff has been released - for our pleasure - in a short space of time. Or, as Prince DID sing once, 'be glad 4 what u have and what u've got'.

.


Amazing how you lot continue the "just be glad you're getting something" bullshit.


.


People are paying good money for this. They shouldn't need to put up with amateur technical hiccups etc. That these shortcomings emerged almost immediately upon people first hearing these things says plenty. According to Duane Tudahl, they work on these kinds of sets for a year, and yet none of them even noted these shortcomings? Maybe they should hire experts instead of paying Bitton to interview Dave Chappelle for an absolutely worthless waste of space, or pay Lenny for some fluff piece that adds nothing.


I can only agree nod
A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #131 posted 10/04/20 8:55am

masaba

BartVanHemelen said:



ReddishBrownOne said:


It's a shame that Prince never recorded a cover of the Chas 'n' Dave classic 'There Ain't No Pleasing You'. That would sum up the attitude of much of the online community towards these posthumous releases. I'm not saying that they have been flawless, but the bigger picture is that a lot of incredible new stuff has been released - for our pleasure - in a short space of time. Or, as Prince DID sing once, 'be glad 4 what u have and what u've got'.

.


Amazing how you lot continue the "just be glad you're getting something" bullshit.


.


People are paying good money for this. They shouldn't need to put up with amateur technical hiccups etc. That these shortcomings emerged almost immediately upon people first hearing these things says plenty. According to Duane Tudahl, they work on these kinds of sets for a year, and yet none of them even noted these shortcomings? Maybe they should hire experts instead of paying Bitton to interview Dave Chappelle for an absolutely worthless waste of space, or pay Lenny for some fluff piece that adds nothing.

That I do agree with haha.
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Reply #132 posted 10/04/20 1:26pm

udo

avatar

BartVanHemelen said:

People are paying good money for this. They shouldn't need to put up with amateur technical hiccups etc. That these shortcomings emerged almost immediately upon people first hearing these things says plenty. According to Duane Tudahl, they work on these kinds of sets for a year, and yet none of them even noted these shortcomings? Maybe they should hire experts instead of paying Bitton to interview Dave Chappelle for an absolutely worthless waste of space, or pay Lenny for some fluff piece that adds nothing.

.

I do approve of this message.

How to make Duane explain?

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #133 posted 10/04/20 2:44pm

LoveGalore

udo said:



BartVanHemelen said:


People are paying good money for this. They shouldn't need to put up with amateur technical hiccups etc. That these shortcomings emerged almost immediately upon people first hearing these things says plenty. According to Duane Tudahl, they work on these kinds of sets for a year, and yet none of them even noted these shortcomings? Maybe they should hire experts instead of paying Bitton to interview Dave Chappelle for an absolutely worthless waste of space, or pay Lenny for some fluff piece that adds nothing.



.


I do approve of this message.


How to make Duane explain?



Well, he's probably not camped out on the org. I'm curious why no one who feels espe moved by all this stuff even bothers to tweet the guy.
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Reply #134 posted 10/04/20 5:15pm

JoeyCococo

SquirrelMeat ]

From an audio perspective it blows the live discs from 1999 SDE and Purple Rain DE out of the water. The stereo mixing is spot on.[/quote]

I find this mix is light on bass ..the 1999 Detroit show was fuller.
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Reply #135 posted 10/04/20 9:17pm

udo

avatar

LoveGalore said:

Well, he's probably not camped out on the org. I'm curious why no one who feels espe moved by all this stuff even bothers to tweet the guy.

.

Tweet? What about phone?

Would the old A&R number still work?

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #136 posted 10/05/20 1:57am

TheEnglishGent

avatar

ReddishBrownOne said:

It's a shame that Prince never recorded a cover of the Chas 'n' Dave classic 'There Ain't No Pleasing You'. That would sum up the attitude of much of the online community towards these posthumous releases. I'm not saying that they have been flawless, but the bigger picture is that a lot of incredible new stuff has been released - for our pleasure - in a short space of time. Or, as Prince DID sing once, 'be glad 4 what u have and what u've got'.

On the one hand people seem to want what Prince left without any 'frankensteining', then on the other hand they want perfect releases, without flaws. I'm not sure these two situations are entirely compatible and it puts the estate in a no win situation.

The situation would be helped if the estate would at least address the points. Is the speed of the live show wrong because there was an issue with the recording equipment and that's how Prince left it? Was the end of Rebirth tacked on by them or by Prince?

Personally, I'm in the camp that isn't bothered by these issues but I do understand why some people are bothered and I would be intersted in proper explanations from the people who actually have direct access to the vault material.

RIP sad
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Reply #137 posted 10/05/20 2:18am

udo

avatar

TheEnglishGent said:

but I do understand why some people are bothered and I would be intersted in proper explanations from the people who actually have direct access to the vault material.

.

`Respectable` bootleggars do try to provide explanation in the liner notes why stuff is how it is.

E.g. why a recording is cut off, why things sound 'off' , etc.

Such documentation would be appreciated if it were available for this SOTT SDE release, I guess.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #138 posted 10/05/20 6:18am

JoeyCococo

BartVanHemelen said:

Amazing how you lot continue the "just be glad you're getting something" bullshit.

.

People are paying good money for this. They shouldn't need to put up with amateur technical hiccups etc. That these shortcomings emerged almost immediately upon people first hearing these things says plenty. According to Duane Tudahl, they work on these kinds of sets for a year, and yet none of them even noted these shortcomings? Maybe they should hire experts instead of paying Bitton to interview Dave Chappelle for an absolutely worthless waste of space, or pay Lenny for some fluff piece that adds nothing.

I think it is ok to offer our criticism when the errors are obvious like the tape speed on the live disc or the sudden increase in volume at the end of Rebirth of the Flesh. However, this is minor when compared to the sheer volume and quality of this set. It is simply astonishing. I would save Bart's level of anger and annoyance if they let Kanye West sh&& on If I Was Your Girlfriend with his idiotic meanderings or let Jayz vomit all over Sign O The Times. Yes, for that I'd out-Bart...Bart.

The set is incredible.

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Reply #139 posted 10/05/20 6:32am

udo

avatar

JoeyCococo said:

However, this is minor when compared to the sheer volume and quality of this set.

.

I can say that bootleggars put out similar or bigger sets with less inconsistencies. (e.g. the O2 sets by Eye and Sabotage)

They (WB, Michael, Duane, etc) try to reflect their professional working style but the results are far from it if we look at the details.

- Lack of backbone (PR compressed remaster)

- Unexcused censorship (2 songs missing from 1999)

- Missing songs, speed issues, volume issue(s), wrong versions, etc (SOTT)

If they mentioned some reeasoning in teh liner notes for these, these could be excused.

But did they, fully and completely?

They fail to even show how much work went into stuff.

They fail on on sub-project that is this SOTT SDE release.

They fail to be able to oversee a bigger project of SDE releases.

They fail the responsibility they have towards fans.

.

Yes, people might get upsiet by this amount of 'negativity' but it shows that there is room for improvement.

The question now is: how do we get there?

How do we make them see that things can be better?

I guess the key is to communicate these issues to them. (and not just discuss here)

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #140 posted 10/05/20 7:21am

TheEnglishGent

avatar

databank said:

masaba said:

With the amount of boots I've listened to I've become more or less impervious to sound quality or sound issues. Shit like the beginning of erotic city on PReluxe or brickwalling I'll notice, but I'll this other stuff, don't know how y'all even catch it.

.

It's funny you'd say that because what y'all call brickwalling, I've never heard.

.

Have a closer listen to the PR remaster. Espeically the end of Let's Go Crazy.

RIP sad
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Reply #141 posted 10/05/20 12:44pm

FrankieCoco1

BartVanHemelen said: “According to Duane Tudahl, they work on these kinds of sets for a year, and yet none of them even noted these shortcomings?“

Maybe it takes a year to “add in” these flaws, to make them sound historic. A bit like putting paper in tea to make it look old. I’m joking of course. If anyone has the time and energy to contact Bernie Grundman, Niko Bolas, Michael Howe or any of the bands, to find out about these issues, I’d love to know.

Bart, despite the flaws, you must have a few favourite things out of all stuff on this set. What are your highlights?
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Reply #142 posted 10/12/20 2:03pm

Toofunkyinhere

I like this, pretty cool to have the Sign O The Times movie versions, albeit in more raw unedited state. Although I thought the Purple Rain songs sounded a bit subdued or something?
We're here, might as well get into it.
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Reply #143 posted 10/13/20 4:52am

Nikkie

avatar

Yes, people might get upsiet by this amount of 'negativity' but it shows that there is room for improvement.

The question now is: how do we get there?

How do we make them see that things can be better?

I guess the key is to communicate these issues to them. (and not just discuss here)

Did anyone contact the Estate or Warners? I see Michael Howe is on LinkedIn, should not be that difficult. The speed issue is such an easy fix (I'd be happy to help out lol ). I guess they could put the corrected files on the Prince website to download for free. Of course I'd like to have new, corrected vinyls too, but I don't see that happening.

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Reply #144 posted 10/13/20 5:29am

LoveGalore

Nikkie said:



Yes, people might get upsiet by this amount of 'negativity' but it shows that there is room for improvement.


The question now is: how do we get there?


How do we make them see that things can be better?


I guess the key is to communicate these issues to them. (and not just discuss here)





Did anyone contact the Estate or Warners? I see Michael Howe is on LinkedIn, should not be that difficult. The speed issue is such an easy fix (I'd be happy to help out lol ). I guess they could put the corrected files on the Prince website to download for free. Of course I'd like to have new, corrected vinyls too, but I don't see that happening.



The org will take many great steps to cry about things. Not many great steps to rectify it.

Edit: I've suggested people tweet them multiple times. Fucking tweet the man. And Duane for that matter. It's a direct and public line of communication. People do respond to tweets.
[Edited 10/13/20 5:30am]
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Reply #145 posted 10/13/20 8:11am

udo

avatar

LoveGalore said:

Nikkie said:

Did anyone contact the Estate or Warners? I see Michael Howe is on LinkedIn, should not be that difficult. The speed issue is such an easy fix (I'd be happy to help out lol ). I guess they could put the corrected files on the Prince website to download for free. Of course I'd like to have new, corrected vinyls too, but I don't see that happening.

The org will take many great steps to cry about things. Not many great steps to rectify it. Edit: I've suggested people tweet them multiple times. Fucking tweet the man. And Duane for that matter. It's a direct and public line of communication. People do respond to tweets. [Edited 10/13/20 5:30am]

.

Tweeting is one way.

Email and telephone might be other ways if email adresses and numbers are available.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #146 posted 10/14/20 10:28am

djThunderfunk

avatar

JoeyCococo said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Amazing how you lot continue the "just be glad you're getting something" bullshit.

.

People are paying good money for this. They shouldn't need to put up with amateur technical hiccups etc. That these shortcomings emerged almost immediately upon people first hearing these things says plenty. According to Duane Tudahl, they work on these kinds of sets for a year, and yet none of them even noted these shortcomings? Maybe they should hire experts instead of paying Bitton to interview Dave Chappelle for an absolutely worthless waste of space, or pay Lenny for some fluff piece that adds nothing.

I think it is ok to offer our criticism when the errors are obvious like the tape speed on the live disc or the sudden increase in volume at the end of Rebirth of the Flesh. However, this is minor when compared to the sheer volume and quality of this set. It is simply astonishing. I would save Bart's level of anger and annoyance if they let Kanye West sh&& on If I Was Your Girlfriend with his idiotic meanderings or let Jayz vomit all over Sign O The Times. Yes, for that I'd out-Bart...Bart.

The set is incredible.


BOTH of these comments have merit!! wink

Bernie Grundman on MASTERING:
https://prince.org/msg/15/464719
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Reply #147 posted 10/14/20 10:30am

djThunderfunk

avatar

TheEnglishGent said:

databank said:

.

It's funny you'd say that because what y'all call brickwalling, I've never heard.

.

Have a closer listen to the PR remaster. Espeically the end of Let's Go Crazy.


Agreed! The PR Remaster has some horrendous brickwalling.

Bernie Grundman on MASTERING:
https://prince.org/msg/15/464719
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Reply #148 posted 10/16/20 2:54pm

GaryMF

avatar

Finally listening to this.

ONly up to Hot THing.

.

On Never Take Place of yo Man.... is it me or are the BG vocals too soft? You don't hear them at all sometimes and even when they come in they're very low.

.

.

Who is playing the acoustic piano....Boni or Matt?

rainbow
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