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Reply #60 posted 10/07/20 12:01pm

Genesia

avatar

MoodyBlumes said:

Genesia said:


Right. You said "celebrity bios," then posted a link to an article that is clearly about autobiographies. Learn to read.

[Edited 10/7/20 11:34am]

... How 'bout you learn some manners. Trying to be a big fish in a small pond... got it. Anyone who thinks Neal is writing for free is as naive as they come.


falloff

I'm trying to be a big fish in a small pond? You're the one who's been all over these threads, making incorrect and (possibly) slanderous statements, despite the fact that you don't know Neal Karlen and haven't read his book!

Who said Neal was writing for free? Of course, he isn't. Does the fact that people get paid to write a thing mean they're automatically lying about their subjects? That insinuation is malicious and just plain stupid.

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
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Reply #61 posted 10/07/20 12:12pm

donnyenglish

rednblue said:

donnyenglish said:

This is noise. He said this in an article in the Star Tribune shortly before Prince died in April 2016:

Q: How long has it been since you had contact with him?

A: When did I insult him on John Hines' show? Several years ago; I'd say three. In the last year I've been to Paisley Park a few times. A few times we have locked eyes and we smiled at each other.

He also said the following:

Q: Do you keep them in some place safe?

A: Yes. I will sell that. … His signature, he doesn’t sign autographs. I’m waiting for him to die, frankly, because they are worth infinitely more. His signature is worth so much more than Bob Dylan’s. … The most loyal professional [smile] and I’m waiting till he dies? [to the camera ]A long life, Prince.

https://www.startribune.com/c-j-writing-a-book-with-prince-would-be-a-nightmare-job-says-neal-karlen-who-loves-the-purple-guy/375907901/?refresh=true

Stop letting people who lie on Prince and who have been disloyal to Prince tell his story.

[Edited 10/7/20 11:09am]


Am rushing because have to go, so sorry if this comes off as dense and harsh.

If you are looking for someone to write a book about Prince who hasn't ever lied about Prince and others in the purple world, and who hasn't been extemely and harshly disloyal to others in the purple world at times, you'd have to rule out Prince himself.

Can absolutely and totally understand saying Prince is number one source due to his genius and for being the reason the purple world exists in the first place...but that's not the same as being superhuman in not fibbing and being exempt from some pretty terribly disloyal treatment of others.

Also, sorry for super dense question, but how does above quoted exchange preclude the notion of March 2016 phone call?

And can you suggest a few books on Prince? I've got (and love) The Beautiful Ones.

[Edited 10/7/20 11:32am]

The article was published on April 15, 2016. As of that time, he said that it has been years since he was in contact with Prince. In his book, he says that Prince called him in March 2016, which is a lie.

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Reply #62 posted 10/07/20 12:42pm

rednblue

donnyenglish said:

rednblue said:


Am rushing because have to go, so sorry if this comes off as dense and harsh.

If you are looking for someone to write a book about Prince who hasn't ever lied about Prince and others in the purple world, and who hasn't been extemely and harshly disloyal to others in the purple world at times, you'd have to rule out Prince himself.

Can absolutely and totally understand saying Prince is number one source due to his genius and for being the reason the purple world exists in the first place...but that's not the same as being superhuman in not fibbing and being exempt from some pretty terribly disloyal treatment of others.

Also, sorry for super dense question, but how does above quoted exchange preclude the notion of March 2016 phone call?

And can you suggest a few books on Prince? I've got (and love) The Beautiful Ones.

[Edited 10/7/20 11:32am]

The article was published on April 15, 2016. As of that time, he said that it has been years since he was in contact with Prince. In his book, he says that Prince called him in March 2016, which is a lie.


Sorry, but I don't really see Neal answer the question. He talks about insulting Prince on a radio show three years before and about (I assume) not speaking with Prince on a few recent visits to Paisley Park.

FWIW, I don't think he answers CJ's next question either. He says something about his communications with Bill Murray. He sometimes doesn't really answer, and his speaking style is often disjointed, with topics crashing into one another. In those ways, his interview style has something in common with Prince's, and I get a kick out of that. : )

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Reply #63 posted 10/07/20 12:44pm

rednblue

^^^^^^^^

Here's that section from the CJ interview:


"Q: How long has it been since you had contact with him?

A: When did I insult him on John Hines' show? Several years ago; I'd say three. In the last year I've been to Paisley Park a few times. A few times we have locked eyes and we smiled at each other.

Q: If you tried to get in touch with Prince now, would he be available to you?

A: I know how to get in touch with him but never once have I. Same thing with Bill Murray. But Bill Murray gets a hold of me. I don't mean to imply he calls me all the time and we're best friends."

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Reply #64 posted 10/07/20 12:45pm

Vannormal

avatar

-

Again...

...not even read or bought the book and some start the hating (again).

READ.

THE.

BOOK.

FIRST.

Certainly if you have doubts.

Then have a constructive comment / debate.

-

Why is it that Prince to some is a saint that can not be touched/investigated ?

"Fan = fanatic" ?

-

"...no matter what, all will be fine, always."
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Reply #65 posted 10/07/20 12:51pm

Vannormal

avatar

Genesia said:

MoodyBlumes said:

Neal isn't writing for free. If he doesn't make much money, then I will be happy. I haven't read the book but everything I have read about it doesn't sit well. And I was pro Neal when I first heard about the book. Here is an article on celebrity bios, which isn't quite the same, but Neal is being promoted as 'Prince's Biographer' yada yada. My guess is he is expecting to get paid. I am not comparing Neal with Kim Berry or Wally Safford, etc. although I believe they also expected to be well paid (even if they were not).

.

https://www.nydailynews.c...-1.1751111

Just parts of this article...

"There's big money in star memoirs."

.

"He's dating that boom to the publication of Keith Richards' blockbuster autobio, "Life." The guitarist's wild and witty book sold over 1 million copies, helping pay back a reported $7 million advance to the star.

Richards' success caused what book agent Sarah Lazin calls "a feeding frenzy. Publishers started looking for any star who has a clear fan base."

Small wonder book deals have recently been announced for Bryan Cranston, cashing in on the "Breaking Bad" craze, Lena Dunham, riding her "Girls" wave to the tune of a reported $3.5 million advance, and Flea, to recount his sex- and drug-fueled exploits with the Red Hot Chili Peppers."

.

"Autobios by Clapton, Steven Tyler, Nikki Sixx (plus Sixx's band, Motley Crue), Anthony Kiedis, Jay-Z, Bob Dylan and Patti Smith all sold robustly by industry standards — between 250,000 and 500,000 copies each, according to Ruby-Strauss. Smith's work, "Just Kids," which passed the half-million sales mark, according to BookScan, brought prestige to the genre by earning a National Book Award."

.

"Having a sense of humor also helps. Tina Fey enjoyed one of the industry's biggest successes with her 2011 autobio, "Bossypants." It has sold over 1 million copies. This has fueled interest in one from her old "Saturday Night Live" boss, Lorne Michaels. Piazza says such a tome could fetch an advance of $5 million."


Good grief. You don't even know the difference between a memoir and a biography.

Sit the fuck down already. rolleyes

-

LOL You're absolutely right.

Let me help :

-

"A biography is the life history of an individual, written by someone else.

An autobiography is the story of a person's life, written by that person.

A memoir is a collection of memories written by the person themselves."

-

"...no matter what, all will be fine, always."
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Reply #66 posted 10/07/20 1:49pm

ThatWhiteDude

avatar

Vannormal said:

-

Again...

...not even read or bought the book and some start the hating (again).

READ.

THE.

BOOK.

FIRST.

Certainly if you have doubts.

Then have a constructive comment / debate.

-

Why is it that Prince to some is a saint that can not be touched/investigated ?

"Fan = fanatic" ?

-

This is not about Prince being a saint to some, did you read the complaints? You're just assuming it's about the book when it's not. The complaints are about the author of the book and the questionable stuff he said and did. It looks like he betrayed a friend by recording their conversations. He was joking about Prince's death and said he'd be worth more than alive. Does that sound like anything a friend would say?

I don't care if people write books or critize Prince for being a dick or whatever. We all know he could be an asshat sometimes. I would've bought Kim berry's book if she wouldn't have done the shit she did. Same with Neal. I had it ordered. My complaints are not about his book as I haven't read it. But I don't give my money to a person who strikes me as a two faced snake.

[Edited 10/7/20 13:51pm]

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."

Poppys, Shanon319, Number23, Kares. #lifttheban
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Reply #67 posted 10/07/20 2:23pm

ThatWhiteDude

avatar

Also, from what I've heard already from other people who have the book, he does seem to talk about Prince's father at length, and John doesn't come off good at all. So if Prince really did have heart to hearts with Neal and talked about his father in depth, what on earth made Neal believe it's his place to talk about this in any shape or form? If Prince would've wanted us to know the whole story with his parents, he would've told us in a way. What we know just scratches the surface. That's the second character assassination attempt at one of his parents, the first one being in Kim's book with his mother.

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."

Poppys, Shanon319, Number23, Kares. #lifttheban
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Reply #68 posted 10/07/20 2:24pm

Margot

MoodyBlumes said:

Genesia said:


Right. You said "celebrity bios," then posted a link to an article that is clearly about autobiographies. Learn to read.

[Edited 10/7/20 11:34am]

... How 'bout you learn some manners. Trying to be a big fish in a small pond... got it. Anyone who thinks Neal is writing for free is as naive as they come.

Manners...

Thanks for bringing that up; appreciate it.

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Reply #69 posted 10/07/20 2:26pm

Robbajobba

avatar

Skimmed some of it - haven't had time to start it properly. If half of what he says is true (about Prince's pain - psychological and physical) it's devastating.

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Reply #70 posted 10/07/20 2:31pm

Margot

MoodyBlumes said:

rednblue said:


YES! to all of this. Love your description of his way with conversation.

Each person will make own judgment. Suggested on other thread, where some were asking who Neal is, that they can read some of his earlier articles and books. Should have also thought about interviews, etc. like the one you describe here. People can see what they think for themselves.

As for judgment about lies/truth, there are some things fans know directly, but a lot we simply don't know with "direct evidence" about lie vs. truth. If it's to be said about this book, it's to be said about most books.

I really enjoyed Mayte's book. I know that book said some things people didn't want to hear. Not wanting to hear something doesn't make it true or untrue. I'm one of those fans who has zero direct knowledge, but I appreciate these books.

As for talk of making money off of books, writing a book is not the thing to choose if the goal is big money.

Neal will make good coin on this one... trust. Wonder why his insurance wouldn't cover his apartment fire? Here is his April 2017 'Go Fund Me'... he raised $44,780.

.

Help Neal Get Back on His Feet!

https://www.gofundme.com/...n-his-feet

I can follow your logic and agree with much of what you are saying.

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Reply #71 posted 10/07/20 2:37pm

Margot

Margot said:

MoodyBlumes said:

Neal will make good coin on this one... trust. Wonder why his insurance wouldn't cover his apartment fire? Here is his April 2017 'Go Fund Me'... he raised $44,780.

.

Help Neal Get Back on His Feet!

https://www.gofundme.com/...n-his-feet

I can follow your logic and agree with much of what you are saying.

I just do not believe Prince called him in March, at all.

He is a clever writer, but if I doubt his first statement, I will continue to have trust issues.

During that CJ article, if Prince had actually called him in March, he would have been

high-lighting it.

All they did was 'lock eyes'

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Reply #72 posted 10/07/20 2:45pm

laytonian

Margot said:

Not to be a 'killjoy' but did Prince really call Neal in March 2016?

Did Neal really talk to Andre?? Could Andre reel off those shows 30 years later?

I remember watching them too but Barnaby Jones and Welcome Back Kotter would not

have been easily retrievable from my memory.

I just hope he is not taking us on a bit of a ride. Of course, some things will be true but

some of this may be embellishment.


I believe Neal saying he DID talk to Prince in March 2016 over reporting by CJ (Billy Jack Bitch) who claims Neal hadn't had contact for a few years.
Funny when y'all want to put someone down, suddenly CJ is reputable.

Welcome to "the org", laytonian… come bathe with me.
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Reply #73 posted 10/07/20 2:49pm

Genesia

avatar

laytonian said:



Margot said:


Not to be a 'killjoy' but did Prince really call Neal in March 2016?



Did Neal really talk to Andre?? Could Andre reel off those shows 30 years later?



I remember watching them too but Barnaby Jones and Welcome Back Kotter would not


have been easily retrievable from my memory.



I just hope he is not taking us on a bit of a ride. Of course, some things will be true but


some of this may be embellishment.





I believe Neal saying he DID talk to Prince in March 2016 over reporting by CJ (Billy Jack Bitch) who claims Neal hadn't had contact for a few years.
Funny when y'all want to put someone down, suddenly CJ is reputable.




:!:
We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
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Reply #74 posted 10/07/20 2:50pm

laytonian

MoodyBlumes said:

"And these letters he sent me after my Rolling Stone stories are my stocks and bonds... I'm waiting for him to die frankly, I am, because they're worth infinitely more... he is worth so much more than Bob Dylan, his signature. I was just at an autograph show and everyone was saying... 'wait 'til he dies'." - Neal Karlen, April 8, 2016

https://video.startribune...375081441/

[Edited 10/7/20 5:28am]


Of course, there's more to it and you know it.

"Q: Do you keep them in some place safe?

A: Yes. I will sell that. … His signature, he doesn’t sign autographs. I’m waiting for him to die, frankly, because they are worth infinitely more. His signature is worth so much more than Bob Dylan’s. … The most loyal professional [smile] and I’m waiting till he dies? [to the camera ]A long life, Prince."

https://www.startribune.c...375088911/

Welcome to "the org", laytonian… come bathe with me.
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Reply #75 posted 10/07/20 3:16pm

Margot

Genesia said:

laytonian said:


I believe Neal saying he DID talk to Prince in March 2016 over reporting by CJ (Billy Jack Bitch) who claims Neal hadn't had contact for a few years.
Funny when y'all want to put someone down, suddenly CJ is reputable.

exclaim

She would not have known to hide that piece of info.

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Reply #76 posted 10/07/20 4:32pm

LovePaisley

laytonian said:



MoodyBlumes said:


"And these letters he sent me after my Rolling Stone stories are my stocks and bonds... I'm waiting for him to die frankly, I am, because they're worth infinitely more... he is worth so much more than Bob Dylan, his signature. I was just at an autograph show and everyone was saying... 'wait 'til he dies'." - Neal Karlen, April 8, 2016


https://video.startribune...375081441/


[Edited 10/7/20 5:28am]




Of course, there's more to it and you know it.

"Q: Do you keep them in some place safe?


A: Yes. I will sell that. … His signature, he doesn’t sign autographs. I’m waiting for him to die, frankly, because they are worth infinitely more. His signature is worth so much more than Bob Dylan’s. … The most loyal professional [smile] and I’m waiting till he dies? [to the camera ]A long life, Prince."

https://www.startribune.c...375088911/


I believe Neal explained that public "coldness" at one point. Being known for interviewing Prince was interfering with his career; every interview veered off into Prince questions. So Neal deliberately and publicly created a feud--and told Prince he was going to do it and why. Prince told him he understood. I'm on a phone (and too lazy) to look up the interview.
And the MUSIC continues...forever...
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Reply #77 posted 10/07/20 7:11pm

MoodyBlumes

ThatWhiteDude said:

Also, from what I've heard already from other people who have the book, he does seem to talk about Prince's father at length, and John doesn't come off good at all. So if Prince really did have heart to hearts with Neal and talked about his father in depth, what on earth made Neal believe it's his place to talk about this in any shape or form? If Prince would've wanted us to know the whole story with his parents, he would've told us in a way. What we know just scratches the surface. That's the second character assassination attempt at one of his parents, the first one being in Kim's book with his mother.

In CJ's Oct 4th interview, Neal is said to call Prince's dad a “wretched, slimy, reptilian motherfucker.”

"Neal Karlen's new "bio-memoir" of Prince's last 31 years is documented with tapes"

.

He spends much time (on the audio recording) singing Kim Berry's praises, reading from her book 'Diamonds and Curlz', and explaining that Prince was bullshitting Kim so her depiction of his mom as an 'unredeemable drug addict' was: "1 lie from Prince and Berry's importance to the historical record was destroyed."

What Neal doesn't grasp is that Prince didn't ask her to write about his mother... or auction his hair or socks.

.

He describes Mattie as a wonderful person who helped someone overcome their addiction as a social worker... implying that we should dismiss Prince's own words about her and go with his.

[Edited 10/7/20 23:59pm]

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Reply #78 posted 10/07/20 7:15pm

MoodyBlumes

laytonian said:

MoodyBlumes said:

"And these letters he sent me after my Rolling Stone stories are my stocks and bonds... I'm waiting for him to die frankly, I am, because they're worth infinitely more... he is worth so much more than Bob Dylan, his signature. I was just at an autograph show and everyone was saying... 'wait 'til he dies'." - Neal Karlen, April 8, 2016

https://video.startribune...375081441/

[Edited 10/7/20 5:28am]


Of course, there's more to it and you know it.

"Q: Do you keep them in some place safe?

A: Yes. I will sell that. … His signature, he doesn’t sign autographs. I’m waiting for him to die, frankly, because they are worth infinitely more. His signature is worth so much more than Bob Dylan’s. … The most loyal professional [smile] and I’m waiting till he dies? [to the camera ]A long life, Prince."

https://www.startribune.c...375088911/

Okay, in that case we should just ignore the part about getting rich off his friend when he dies. I wonder how much has been made at auction over the last 4+ years of everyone selling his stuff... hair, socks, leg warmers, thank you notes, lists, lyric sheets, guitars, stagewear, etc.? I wonder if he hadn't been called out on social media over that interview if he wouldn't be auctioning too.

[Edited 10/7/20 19:40pm]

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Reply #79 posted 10/07/20 11:49pm

MoodyBlumes

.
[Edited 10/7/20 23:53pm]
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Reply #80 posted 10/08/20 2:42am

fragglerock

avatar

donnyenglish said:

In his book, he says that Prince called him in March 2016, which is a lie.

yes, i saw a tweet that explained this

There's 5gb of investigation files from Carver County including phone records. Every point of contact to find the source of the fentanyl was interviewed. Guess who's not listed or was ever questioned

that's the proof right there that Neal is just making this crap up

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Reply #81 posted 10/08/20 4:11am

ThatWhiteDude

avatar

MoodyBlumes said:



ThatWhiteDude said:


Also, from what I've heard already from other people who have the book, he does seem to talk about Prince's father at length, and John doesn't come off good at all. So if Prince really did have heart to hearts with Neal and talked about his father in depth, what on earth made Neal believe it's his place to talk about this in any shape or form? If Prince would've wanted us to know the whole story with his parents, he would've told us in a way. What we know just scratches the surface. That's the second character assassination attempt at one of his parents, the first one being in Kim's book with his mother.



In CJ's Oct 4th interview, Neal is said to call Prince's dad a “wretched, slimy, reptilian motherfucker.”


"Neal Karlen's new "bio-memoir" of Prince's last 31 years is documented with tapes"


.


He spends much time (on the audio recording) singing Kim Berry's praises, reading from her book 'Diamonds and Curlz', and explaining that Prince was bullshitting Kim so her depiction of his mom as an 'unredeemable drug addict' was: "1 lie from Prince and Berry's importance to the historical record was destroyed."


What Neal doesn't grasp is that Prince didn't ask her to write about his mother... or auction his hair or socks.


.


He describes Mattie as a wonderful person who helped someone overcome their addiction as a social worker... implying that we should dismiss Prince's own words about her and go with his.







[Edited 10/7/20 23:59pm]


Seriously F him
"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."

Poppys, Shanon319, Number23, Kares. #lifttheban
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Reply #82 posted 10/08/20 8:45am

Margot

I'm reading the book now (Kindle). He does go hard on John, but I think his doing so shows sympathy for Prince and how John's self-pity/later jealousy affected him.

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Reply #83 posted 10/08/20 9:44am

simm0061

avatar

I've finished the audio book. They last chapter is where he loses all credibility in my mind (I allowed him creative license in the proceeding chapters).

Karlen it seems, has a case of "The lady doth protest too much". He lambasts "Lies, and the lying liars who tell them"(to steal from Al Franken), while telling some whoppers himself. He tells us that in MN, if someone says " 'my truth', they are def lying", but then goes on to say that he is "writing the truth as [he] expereinced it" - He just told us he is lying!! - either about the former or the later but either way, lying!

He also claims that the interview he gave C.J. (on April 8?), in which he talks shit about P, was a tactic he used "out of desperation" to provoke P into calling him so that he could convince Prince to get help. And that he convinced himself that P needed help for drug addiction (based on timbre of P's voice) after they had talked on the phone 3 weeks prior. I call bullshit. I want to believe him because I actually liked the book (up until the last couple chapters) and I think he's a good writer, but...Bullshit.

He actually tells us in the first chapter that he does indeed make shit up. He admits that writing (in 1985) that P's mother sang with "more than a tace of Billie Holiday in her pipes" was totally made up, because having never heard her voice, he didn't know what else to say.

He (unknowingly) outs himself several more times. Examples; he describes the hymn P gave to the MN Vikings as funky. Hey Neal - goes listen to it!

He also states that The Family reunited and went on to recorded "many albums". For those who don't know, they recorded 1 (!) under the moniker FDeluxe. He also describes them as the "white version of the Time". He got the "white" part right - and I am speaking as a fan.

My take home message to those who might read the book is, to quote Neal, lies sprinkled with some truth, makes for some really good story telling. And he is a good story teller, a good writer. (Hell, I might even listen to the audio book again!) But he is also, to quote Prince, "a real sidewinding, mamma jamma"! lol

[Edited 10/8/20 9:45am]

[Edited 10/8/20 9:49am]

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Reply #84 posted 10/08/20 11:40am

JudasLChrist

avatar

People on the org REALLY like to complain. I bet the far majority of people complaining about things like "He said Mani's name wrong", "Saying Prince had a 'zillion' grammys really bothered me" never created a goddamned thing in their lives.

I'm about 2/3rds through the book. It's really different than other Prince books, probably because people with this kind of non-professional regular intimate accesss to Prince are rare and/or haven't written anything. I like how no bullshit the book is. There's some very tragic bombshells in it, and it's a hard read in some ways. I really appreciate it, however.

I'm at the part right now where he's sort of deep-diving into explaining how stifling and racist Minnesota culture is. Having grown up there having and fled there, I'd say his description is accurate. It's amazing, actually. I find myself wondering why no one has described it so directly before.

Defintely hope to post more thoughts when I'm finished.

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Reply #85 posted 10/08/20 12:21pm

Margot

I am enjoying the fact that he is less timid about stating his observations than some authors.

I don't think he is completely factual, but I bet he remembers the feeling and tone of the

conversations he had with Prince over the years.

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Reply #86 posted 10/17/20 11:52pm

wildgoldenhone
y

sad
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Reply #87 posted 10/18/20 8:00am

Seahorsie

avatar

After going through all the conservations about this book, I think I will go ahead and order it. It may have some chapters that not everyone is in love with, but no one can deny he had some good access to Prince, at least for a season.

I imagine some of what he wrote was as best as he could remember, (he is no spring chicken) and filled in with some stuff he thought might be more entertaining when he couldn't. I will read it, and repost my opinion. Unlike a few of us, I am not opposed to hearing things written about him that are less than stellar. Just makes him more like one of us, with some hairs out of place, bad choices, infidelity, jealousy, and even the use of drugs. All of it will never change my opinion of him being the

G O A T performer and musician!

yes yes yes yes yes yes yes

Good morning children...take a look out your window, the world is falling...
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Reply #88 posted 10/18/20 10:28am

mediumdry

simm0061 said:

He also states that The Family reunited and went on to recorded "many albums". For those who don't know, they recorded 1 (!) under the moniker FDeluxe.

.

Only one FDeluxe album? I'm counting at least four. The worst part of Neal's book is the fact checking on Prince's career (Sound 80 as Chris Moon's studio, for one thing), but if you're trying to discredit the book on facts, get your own in order.

.

Also.. this is the first book not focused on Prince as the artist and his career, but Prince the person, with personal anecdotes from interviews and talks he had with Prince over the last 30+ years. That alone, to me, means it's a good addition to what we already have. And like Neal emphasises in his book, he goes on what Prince told him, for the most part, and Prince liked to tell lies for the fun of it. The book is a relative breath of fresh air, showing a different side of Prince that is not shown very much: that he was as human as the rest of us.

Paisley Park is in your heart - Love Is Here!
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Reply #89 posted 10/18/20 11:40am

Margot

I often let my gut guide me in these types of things...I was not in favor of this book at first as I doubted there was a phone call 3 weeks prior.

However, as I read the book, I knew there was much truth here. I have not changed my mind.

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