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Reply #120 posted 10/22/20 5:55am

Vannormal

avatar

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

You guys need to check out some funky house or techno :p

-

Sure !

By the way, the new Roisín Murphy album ''Rois¶ín Machine'' is a fantastic mix of dance, funk and house.

She threw even some jazz in there. Listen to the mixes done for ''Incapable''.

Just stunning and intoxicating dance music.

-

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=roisin+murphy+roisin+incapable+youtube&&view=detail&mid=E8FF322B7DBF617162DAE8FF322B7DBF617162DA&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Droisin%2520murphy%2520roisin%2520incapable%2520youtube%26qs%3Dn%26form%3DQBVDMH%26sp%3D-1%26pq%3Droisin%2520murphy%2520roisin%2520incapable%2520youtube%26sc%3D0-38%26sk%3D%26cvid%3DEFC485BBA46D4E3B98A8476A1B900D1E

-

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #121 posted 10/22/20 6:35am

rednblue

Gonna show U what ur hips r 4!

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Reply #122 posted 10/22/20 7:00am

rednblue

Vannormal said:

RJOrion said:

who cant dance to "HouseQuake"??..or "LaLaLaHeHeHee"?? or "LeGrind"???... if that aint dance music, what is?...the man is literally TEACHING DANCES during the songs!... wtf are we talkin about here?

-

Exactly.

But there's some nuance here, as usual.

These songs you mention are absolutely very 'danceable songs', but they are not 'Dance' as understood by the style that happened as new later on.

-

Back in the days (1987-1988) when I was young and was out dancing every weekend (Fri & Sat nights) in the local big disco's, ''Housequake'' and ''La La La, He He Hee'', or ''Le Grind'' were not on the DJ lists. ''Kiss'' sometimes, but as I mentioned, difficult to dance too.

Though, I even remember very well that a local DJ got his hands on a vinyl boot of the Black Album, and he played ''Superfunkycalifragisexy'', and funny enough every one left the dancefloor.

Too unknown. And I went aaaaaaall nuts! Screaming every word, faking all Prince moves - surely came off as a complete fool, with my high heels on.

lol

-


OK, so if I geek out on that Wikipedia flow chart, the 70s and 80s are two of the decades in which subcategories under the larger "dance music" heading are funk and R&B.

If you agree with the way the flow chart flows : ), what funk and R&B songs would you put as great exemplars in those 70s and 80s sections?

Asking in a curious, light-hearted way. Understand that people might not want to pursue. Here's Wikipedia's claims:

"1970s[edit]

Genres: Disco, funk, R&B, hip hop

In 1970, the television show Soul Train premiered featuring famous soul artists who would play or lipsync their hits while the audience danced along. By the mid-1970s, disco had become one of the main genres featured. In 1974, Billboard added a Disco Action chart of top hits to its other charts (see List of Billboard number one dance club songs). Disco was characterized by the use of real orchestral instruments, such as strings, which had largely been abandoned during the 1950s because of rock music. In contrast to the 1920s, however, the use of live orchestras in night clubs was extremely rare due to its expense. The disco craze reached its peak in the late 1970s when the word "disco" became synonymous with "dance music" and nightclubs were referred to as "discos".

1980s[edit]

Genres: New wave, Italo disco, Euro disco, post-disco, synthpop, dance-pop, funk, contemporary R&B, hip hop, new jack swing, house, acid house, hip house, techno, freestyle, Miami bass, bounce, electro, hi-NRG, Madchester, EBM, cosmic disco, Balearic beat, new beat"

Thanks for the Superfunkycalifragisexy story! Did songs that hadn't yet been played much usually clear club floors, that is until (and unless) the songs had been played a bunch more and were more familiar at the clubs?

Thanks to you and others for the music suggestions, e.g. the one in your most recent post. : )

P.S. To continue the geek grind, have to acknowledge those groupings might be better described as producing a tree chart, but love to high-heel-shoehorn "flow" into music convos.

[Edited 10/22/20 7:32am]

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Reply #123 posted 10/22/20 7:02am

heartpeaceshea
rt

SantanaMaitreya said:

MattyJam said:



Vannormal said:


I've been to all his tours in 90's and 00's, saw several shows multiple times.


But somehow they sounded and looked uninspired, even a bit bored, at least to me.




I appreciate your honesty. I saw the dude three times, once on the ONA tour, and again twice on the 21 Nights in London. The difference between the two was night and day. On ONA, he looked engaged, the show lasted 2+hrs, he did a lot of stuff off the cuff and really appeared to be having fun.

The first 21 Nights show I saw felt very corporate. Prince played for the minimum amount of time acceptable (just over 80 mins) and looked like he was just going through the motions.

The second 21 Nights show was better, especially as he did a piano set - which is always a treat, seeing his talent in its rawest form. But it still wasn't a patch on the ONA show I saw.

A lot of fans raved about those 21 Nights shows, but I can't help suspect they were merely in awe of seeing such a legend and would've loved it regardless of what he did. For me, I found them to be underwhelming mostly.

[Edited 10/20/20 7:28am]


I wasn't there, but I know that Prince often needed a few gigs to get going. The shows usually got better as the tour progressed. For example, I saw the opening night of the D&P tour in Gent in may 1992 and the next days in Rotterdam he was already more playful, jamming more and by the time he came back in july, new songs had been added to the set.


This is my first post ever with the line"I wasn't there but...."
Why weren't you there, where were you and what was your sweater doing on backwards LMFAO. I have to agree with the whole needing some gigs to get going. And some people have to get used to the crowd first and maybe some crowds have sucked. Isn't that like a typical night out for most people? It is for me but anyway I don't know the last time I went out, do you want to go on a date with me Satananandana?
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Reply #124 posted 10/22/20 8:33am

Vannormal

avatar

-

During this worse shit-hell year 2020, Disco as a revival had begun.

Lady Gaga went back to the 4/4 songs and ditto melodies,

Dua Lipa cared for some disco revival too, Doja Cat with ''Say so'' as well,

and Roisín Murphy like i said in previous post with (there's a fantastic Soulwax remix/mix of Roisín Murphy out there too), The Weekend likes some disco here and there too,

plus not to foreget the new Kylie album that's coming this month, titled simply ''Disco''.

See her new videos, and you'll be flashed back to the dancefloor.

So bizarre but understandable, givin the pandemic and all, people want lighthearted tunes, and happy moves I guess. And, Disco had many revivals, and now is about the time for another one.

Every generation it's own disco influenza. wink

Let's Hope Daft Punk delivers a new album in 2021 too.

Madonna should particiapate in this new trend too. It's her thingy, disco tunes and lying on the floor spinning some fishnets and flashy fake-ups. wink

-

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #125 posted 10/22/20 8:45am

heartpeaceshea
rt

nd then what happened 😹😹😸😹🙂
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Reply #126 posted 10/22/20 5:23pm

Milty2

Vannormal said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

You guys need to check out some funky house or techno :p

-

Sure !

By the way, the new Roisín Murphy album ''Rois¶ín Machine'' is a fantastic mix of dance, funk and house.

She threw even some jazz in there. Listen to the mixes done for ''Incapable''.

Just stunning and intoxicating dance music.

-

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=roisin+murphy+roisin+incapable+youtube&&view=detail&mid=E8FF322B7DBF617162DAE8FF322B7DBF617162DA&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Droisin%2520murphy%2520roisin%2520incapable%2520youtube%26qs%3Dn%26form%3DQBVDMH%26sp%3D-1%26pq%3Droisin%2520murphy%2520roisin%2520incapable%2520youtube%26sc%3D0-38%26sk%3D%26cvid%3DEFC485BBA46D4E3B98A8476A1B900D1E

-

I love Roisin Murphy and her former band Moloko! She does like to throw in some curve balls into the established genres.

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Reply #127 posted 10/22/20 5:43pm

Polo1026

thebanishedone said:

During the whole decade of the 80's Prince was redefining musical landscapes

without any fear he was pushing the enveloupe.

But starting with the 1991 Diamonds And Pearls Prince incorporated rap into his sound

and overall dumbed his sound to make it safe.I think we can agree

that Diamonds And Pearls is Prince at his safest ,a far cry from the 1980-1988 daring artist.

Why Prince start with compromises when it comes to his music?

Was it being disillusion with his own vision?

Getting scared from the new sounds coming from the streets that he couldn't relate to?

Financial loss from commercial flops of his projects or something else?

Incorporating Rap means you've compromised your art?

Is Rap NOT art?

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Reply #128 posted 10/22/20 6:26pm

heartpeaceshea
rt

Milty2 said:



Vannormal said:




funkbabyandthebabysitters said:


You guys need to check out some funky house or techno :p

-


Sure !


By the way, the new Roisín Murphy album ''Rois¶ín Machine'' is a fantastic mix of dance, funk and house.


She threw even some jazz in there. Listen to the mixes done for ''Incapable''.


Just stunning and intoxicating dance music.


-


https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=roisin+murphy+roisin+incapable+youtube&&view=detail&mid=E8FF322B7DBF617162DAE8FF322B7DBF617162DA&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Droisin%2520murphy%2520roisin%2520incapable%2520youtube%26qs%3Dn%26form%3DQBVDMH%26sp%3D-1%26pq%3Droisin%2520murphy%2520roisin%2520incapable%2520youtube%26sc%3D0-38%26sk%3D%26cvid%3DEFC485BBA46D4E3B98A8476A1B900D1E


-





I love Roisin Murphy and her former band Moloko! She does like to throw in some curve balls into the established genres.



I don't know what your talking about but something tells me to fix myorg profile.
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Reply #129 posted 10/23/20 12:23am

MattyJam

avatar

Polo1026 said:

Is Rap NOT art?


No.

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Reply #130 posted 10/23/20 5:08am

Vannormal

avatar

Polo1026 said:

thebanishedone said:

During the whole decade of the 80's Prince was redefining musical landscapes

without any fear he was pushing the enveloupe.

But starting with the 1991 Diamonds And Pearls Prince incorporated rap into his sound

and overall dumbed his sound to make it safe.I think we can agree

that Diamonds And Pearls is Prince at his safest ,a far cry from the 1980-1988 daring artist.

Why Prince start with compromises when it comes to his music?

Was it being disillusion with his own vision?

Getting scared from the new sounds coming from the streets that he couldn't relate to?

Financial loss from commercial flops of his projects or something else?

Incorporating Rap means you've compromised your art?

Is Rap NOT art?

-

No no no.

remeber the interview with Susan Rogers ?

There she said it exactly the way it was. Rap was 'it'. The new thing.

And Prince knew somhow he was going to be overtaken by this other new movement that was not his own.

In a way it manifested itself through the new youngsters with a new street attitude and a new street sound, while Prince changed his street credibity for stardom.

Th)t kinda rap he incorporated was indeed a compromise,and yes it remains art.

But not the kind of art that came from his guts, from his deapest soul and rudeness he knew before.

He started to 'copy' a style. The guy basically was uptil then a innovator.

-

Rap IS art. I have loads of damn good rap albums, Prince would never ever be able to make.

Like Bob Dylan never would be able to make a funk album like 1999.

-

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #131 posted 10/23/20 5:54am

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

the whole prince and hip hop thing really just boils down to this: his response just wasnt that imaginative. the idea that SOTT the song borrowed from hip hops minimalism would suggest that that was a brilliant approach. rather than try and explicitly take from hip hop (ie get a rapper, get some samples of old breakbeats, etc), he just took inspiration from the aesthetic. you can also look at irresistible bitch which is prince rapping, but in a way that doesnt really feel out of step with his own sound and persona. hes obviously not trying to be melle mell or kurtis blow. in the 90s, it just became much more obvious.

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Reply #132 posted 10/23/20 7:24am

jaawwnn

avatar

MattyJam said:

Polo1026 said:

Is Rap NOT art?


No.

Two negatives make a positive right? Rap can be art, just like pop can be art. Cool, cool. Good thread.

"I think people ought to know that we're anti-fascist, we're anti-violence, we're anti-racist and we're pro-creative. We're against ignorance."
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Reply #133 posted 10/23/20 8:13am

rednblue

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

the whole prince and hip hop thing really just boils down to this: his response just wasnt that imaginative. the idea that SOTT the song borrowed from hip hops minimalism would suggest that that was a brilliant approach. rather than try and explicitly take from hip hop (ie get a rapper, get some samples of old breakbeats, etc), he just took inspiration from the aesthetic. you can also look at irresistible bitch which is prince rapping, but in a way that doesnt really feel out of step with his own sound and persona. hes obviously not trying to be melle mell or kurtis blow. in the 90s, it just became much more obvious.


What you said about Prince and the minimalism is very close to what someone was describing on a recent podcast. Maybe it was one of the SOTT podcasts from the Current. Will check later.

Also, would you say some hip hop artists were influenced by Prince minimalism of earlier years?


In an earlier thread, I wondered if even just a couple areas of Prince's genius, to include his (sometimes wickedly good : ) ) way with words and language, could produce a brilliant response.

I appreciated this response to that comment from RJ Orion, and hope he doesn't mind me bringing it here. RJ Orion said:

"being a great lyricist doesnt always equate to being a good rapper/MC...he never mastered the art of "flow" as a rapper...his flow was always dated and/or forced and monotone, and his delivery never conveyed the true essence of hiphop... its ironic that he seemed to finally catch the wave as an older man in 2014, on "U Know"....he KILLT that shit...flow was current and unforced... joints like "Silicon", "My Medallion" and Y Should Eye do That When Eye Can Do This?" are solid attempts but sound like they were released 10-15 years too late...main problem was Prince was about 10 years too old to really relate to hiphop, especially since there was no real hiphop scene in the twin cities until recently...being born in 1958 and growing up in Minneapolis were the main obstacles to P's rapping skills on the mic...but if he had grown up in New York or Philly maybe ten years later, he would have been a masterful MC with his innate rhythm and lyrical wordsmithery"

[Edited 10/23/20 8:22am]

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Reply #134 posted 10/23/20 8:30am

skywalker

avatar

rednblue said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

the whole prince and hip hop thing really just boils down to this: his response just wasnt that imaginative. the idea that SOTT the song borrowed from hip hops minimalism would suggest that that was a brilliant approach. rather than try and explicitly take from hip hop (ie get a rapper, get some samples of old breakbeats, etc), he just took inspiration from the aesthetic. you can also look at irresistible bitch which is prince rapping, but in a way that doesnt really feel out of step with his own sound and persona. hes obviously not trying to be melle mell or kurtis blow. in the 90s, it just became much more obvious.


What you said about Prince and the minimalism is very close to what someone was describing on a recent podcast. Maybe it was one of the SOTT podcasts from the Current. Will check later.

Also, would you say some hip hop artists were influenced by Prince minimalism of earlier years?


In an earlier thread, I wondered if even just a couple areas of Prince's genius, to include his (sometimes wickedly good : ) ) way with words and language, could produce a brilliant response.

I appreciated this response to that comment from RJ Orion, and hope he doesn't mind me bringing it here. RJ Orion said:

"being a great lyricist doesnt always equate to being a good rapper/MC...he never mastered the art of "flow" as a rapper...his flow was always dated and/or forced and monotone, and his delivery never conveyed the true essence of hiphop... its ironic that he seemed to finally catch the wave as an older man in 2014, on "U Know"....he KILLT that shit...flow was current and unforced... joints like "Silicon", "My Medallion" and Y Should Eye do That When Eye Can Do This?" are solid attempts but sound like they were released 10-15 years too late...main problem was Prince was about 10 years too old to really relate to hiphop, especially since there was no real hiphop scene in the twin cities until recently...being born in 1958 and growing up in Minneapolis were the main obstacles to P's rapping skills on the mic...but if he had grown up in New York or Philly maybe ten years later, he would have been a masterful MC with his innate rhythm and lyrical wordsmithery"

[Edited 10/23/20 8:22am]

Here's the thing: When it comes to different musical styles/genres, Prince was ALWAYS going to do his/Prince version of it. His flirtations with New Wave in the early 80's didn't sound like new wave exactly. His rockabilly wasn't an exact approximation of that style. His Beatles influenced work on ATWIAD wasn't 100% true to what the fab four did....these were all Prince's takes on these styles. It was no different with rap.

-

Prince was always going to do his version/his spin/his take on rap. It was never going to be (as you describe) "authentic" rap, it was only ever going to be authentic to Prince's ever malleable and evolving style. Whether you like Prince's take on it is another matter completely. I think Pussy Control, Gett Off, and Days of Wild are some of his most monsterously funky pieces ever. That's just me though...

-

Lastly, it's a bit of a false narrative to claim that Prince wasn't toying with/appreciating/embracing rap/hip hop until the late 80's and early 90's. Who do you think put Sheila E. squarely in the middle of Krush Groove? Who do you think made Holly Rock? I mean, that song had to have been written in 1984, no?

[Edited 10/23/20 8:36am]

"New Power slide...."
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Reply #135 posted 10/23/20 8:36am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

Prince definately was an entertainer, but even moreso he was a Musician (I am Music) I think there were places that increased over time where he put being an 'entertainer' over being a musician.



For example, the Parade era was exploding with music and sounds and colors. As much as I love the Parade tour, I wished it looked/sounded diffferent. With the success of Purple Rain, 1/2 of him didn't want that kind of 'mainstream' success. I think if Princes expansion of the live band was more musicians, instead of dancers, the art wouldn't have been compromised. Which I think it was.



I thought adding/bringing along -Novi Novog, Suzi Katayamah and David Coleman would have brought more richness, if he was able to get Eddie M(which I struggled with because he was so much apart of the Sheila E band), but even including Sheila E, Juan Escovedo, Susannah and Jonathon etc in ways to help bring to the table more of the sounds on the records. Would have taken that era up in musical culture.



I wish this happened with the Around the World In a Day period as well (not a tour but shows that showcased the album music) I think a Dream Factory era would have focused on the music more.



He wrestled with the same thing in the 90s. and I think he touched on it during the ONA/Rainbow Children shows and in special periods after.

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Reply #136 posted 10/23/20 8:51am

rednblue

OldFriends4Sale said:

Prince definately was an entertainer, but even moreso he was a Musician (I am Music) I think there were places that increased over time where he put being an 'entertainer' over being a musician.



For example, the Parade era was exploding with music and sounds and colors. As much as I love the Parade tour, I wished it looked/sounded diffferent. With the success of Purple Rain, 1/2 of him didn't want that kind of 'mainstream' success. I think if Princes expansion of the live band was more musicians, instead of dancers, the art wouldn't have been compromised. Which I think it was.



I thought adding/bringing along -Novi Novog, Suzi Katayamah and David Coleman would have brought more richness, if he was able to get Eddie M(which I struggled with because he was so much apart of the Sheila E band), but even including Sheila E, Juan Escovedo, Susannah and Jonathon etc in ways to help bring to the table more of the sounds on the records. Would have taken that era up in musical culture.



I wish this happened with the Around the World In a Day period as well (not a tour but shows that showcased the album music) I think a Dream Factory era would have focused on the music more.



He wrestled with the same thing in the 90s. and I think he touched on it during the ONA/Rainbow Children shows and in special periods after.


Sorry to be so predictable, but popping in to say dance is art, just like singing, playing instruments, theatrics, visual art, etc., etc.

I know you're into multiple sorts of art OldFriends, so sorry my predictable shout-out to dance is attached to your post.

Parade is a favorite album for me, and that's saying a LOT when talking within Prince albums. Really appreciate what you say about possible people that could have brought beautifully realized album elements to the tour!

Prince worked with some amazing dancers which likely would elevate art. In fact, I just left a post comment about Desmond Richardson, who was part of the Rave Un2 performance, on the sexy dancers thread.

The Village Voice said this about a different, later (2002) performance: "The magnificent Richardson ripples to Prince in a solo that’s almost spiritual in its sensuality."

So I don't think that bringing dance equates to compromise. IMO, dance and singing and playing instruments can all elevate one another.

[Edited 10/23/20 11:08am]

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Reply #137 posted 10/23/20 9:01am

rednblue

^^^^^^^^

Was touched by this December 2017 Facebook post from Desmond Richardson. Can't resist putting it here.


From Desmond Richardson on Facebook:

"One of my favorite dance moments dancing Dwight Rhoden “ SOLO “ music by Prince and having the honor of performing it for the Purple Prince .. you are forever missed 1f64f_1f3fd.png263a.png1f339.png2764.png"


25487396_10156069829686908_5138798164741402005_o.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=2&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=TPc9q9PTWsMAX-l4LNF&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=80ee95e92b459f81e8b98d3326fb08eb&oe=5FB92C53

https://www.facebook.com/...829686908/

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Reply #138 posted 10/23/20 9:10am

rednblue

skywalker said:

rednblue said:


What you said about Prince and the minimalism is very close to what someone was describing on a recent podcast. Maybe it was one of the SOTT podcasts from the Current. Will check later.

Also, would you say some hip hop artists were influenced by Prince minimalism of earlier years?


In an earlier thread, I wondered if even just a couple areas of Prince's genius, to include his (sometimes wickedly good : ) ) way with words and language, could produce a brilliant response.

I appreciated this response to that comment from RJ Orion, and hope he doesn't mind me bringing it here. RJ Orion said:

"being a great lyricist doesnt always equate to being a good rapper/MC...he never mastered the art of "flow" as a rapper...his flow was always dated and/or forced and monotone, and his delivery never conveyed the true essence of hiphop... its ironic that he seemed to finally catch the wave as an older man in 2014, on "U Know"....he KILLT that shit...flow was current and unforced... joints like "Silicon", "My Medallion" and Y Should Eye do That When Eye Can Do This?" are solid attempts but sound like they were released 10-15 years too late...main problem was Prince was about 10 years too old to really relate to hiphop, especially since there was no real hiphop scene in the twin cities until recently...being born in 1958 and growing up in Minneapolis were the main obstacles to P's rapping skills on the mic...but if he had grown up in New York or Philly maybe ten years later, he would have been a masterful MC with his innate rhythm and lyrical wordsmithery"

[Edited 10/23/20 8:22am]

Here's the thing: When it comes to different musical styles/genres, Prince was ALWAYS going to do his/Prince version of it. His flirtations with New Wave in the early 80's didn't sound like new wave exactly. His rockabilly wasn't an exact approximation of that style. His Beatles influenced work on ATWIAD wasn't 100% true to what the fab four did....these were all Prince's takes on these styles. It was no different with rap.

-

Prince was always going to do his version/his spin/his take on rap. It was never going to be (as you describe) "authentic" rap, it was only ever going to be authentic to Prince's ever malleable and evolving style. Whether you like Prince's take on it is another matter completely. I think Pussy Control, Gett Off, and Days of Wild are some of his most monsterously funky pieces ever. That's just me though...

-

Lastly, it's a bit of a false narrative to claim that Prince wasn't toying with/appreciating/embracing rap/hip hop until the late 80's and early 90's. Who do you think put Sheila E. squarely in the middle of Krush Groove? Who do you think made Holly Rock? I mean, that song had to have been written in 1984, no?

[Edited 10/23/20 8:36am]


Love some of Prince's takes on new wave, rockabilly, psychedelia, etc.

Fell in love with (I think it was Controversy) Tour performance of Jack U Off. Outrageous flirty fun. Pure Prince. heart

Thank you for bringing a smile.

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Reply #139 posted 10/23/20 9:10am

BanishedBrian

BartVanHemelen said:

wilmer said:

maybe there was even pressure from the label to put out something that re-established him as a commercially successful artist.

.

Prince's contract was up for renewal, he wanted the biggest ever (being deeply jealous of the types Madonna and MJ were getting) and thus he focused on delivering a highly commercial album and promoting it via an actual world tour and interviews etc., showing WBR that he could be worth their while. And then he got a huge contract (and HE inflated it in press releases etc.), and then he got pissed when he returned to business as usual and discovered that half-assing it doesn't result in selling five million copies (which TBH was not that great a result considering the investment), and then started blaming WBR for "not doing their job" and then discovered that he had negociated a mediocre deal (which his entourage had told him but which he had ignored) and then the whole "boohoo I'm a slave" bullshit happened.

.

Succinct explanation of exactly what happened.

No Candy 4 Me
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Reply #140 posted 10/23/20 9:19am

heartpeaceshea
rt

I am not sure anyone is paying attention to how many questions are within the topics below but it could be that I haven't approached responding to that topic in that way either.


thebanishedone said:

During the whole decade of the 80's Prince was redefining musical landscapes


without any fear he was pushing the enveloupe.


But starting with the 1991 Diamonds And Pearls Prince incorporated rap into his sound


and overall dumbed his sound to make it safe.I think we can agree


that Diamonds And Pearls is Prince at his safest ,a far cry from the 1980-1988 daring artist.


Why Prince start with compromises when it comes to his music?


Was it being disillusion with his own vision?


Getting scared from the new sounds coming from the streets that he couldn't relate to?


Financial loss from commercial flops of his projects or something else?

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Reply #141 posted 10/23/20 9:21am

Margot

BanishedBrian said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Prince's contract was up for renewal, he wanted the biggest ever (being deeply jealous of the types Madonna and MJ were getting) and thus he focused on delivering a highly commercial album and promoting it via an actual world tour and interviews etc., showing WBR that he could be worth their while. And then he got a huge contract (and HE inflated it in press releases etc.), and then he got pissed when he returned to business as usual and discovered that half-assing it doesn't result in selling five million copies (which TBH was not that great a result considering the investment), and then started blaming WBR for "not doing their job" and then discovered that he had negociated a mediocre deal (which his entourage had told him but which he had ignored) and then the whole "boohoo I'm a slave" bullshit happened.

.

Succinct explanation of exactly what happened.

Oh, my.

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Reply #142 posted 10/23/20 9:41am

BanishedBrian

Margot said:

BanishedBrian said:

.

Succinct explanation of exactly what happened.

Oh, my.

.

Which part is inaccurate?

No Candy 4 Me
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Reply #143 posted 10/23/20 9:47am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

rednblue said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Prince definately was an entertainer, but even moreso he was a Musician (I am Music) I think there were places that increased over time where he put being an 'entertainer' over being a musician.



For example, the Parade era was exploding with music and sounds and colors. As much as I love the Parade tour, I wished it looked/sounded diffferent. With the success of Purple Rain, 1/2 of him didn't want that kind of 'mainstream' success. I think if Princes expansion of the live band was more musicians, instead of dancers, the art wouldn't have been compromised. Which I think it was.



I thought adding/bringing along -Novi Novog, Suzi Katayamah and David Coleman would have brought more richness, if he was able to get Eddie M(which I struggled with because he was so much apart of the Sheila E band), but even including Sheila E, Juan Escovedo, Susannah and Jonathon etc in ways to help bring to the table more of the sounds on the records. Would have taken that era up in musical culture.



I wish this happened with the Around the World In a Day period as well (not a tour but shows that showcased the album music) I think a Dream Factory era would have focused on the music more.



He wrestled with the same thing in the 90s. and I think he touched on it during the ONA/Rainbow Children shows and in special periods after.


Sorry to be so predictable, but popping in to say dance is art, just like singing, playing instruments, theatrics, visual art, etc., etc.

I know you're into multiple sorts of art OldFriends, so sorry my predictable shout-out to dance is attached to your post.

Parade is a favorite album for me, and that's saying a LOT when talking within Prince albums. Really appreciate what you say about possible people that could have brought more live album elements to the tour!

Prince worked with some amazing dancers which likely would elevate art. In fact, I just left a post comment about Desmond Richardson, who was part of the Rave Un2 performance, on the sexy dancers thread.

The Village Voice said this about a different, later (2002) performance: "The magnificent Richardson ripples to Prince in a solo that’s almost spiritual in its sensuality."

So I don't think that bringing dance equates to compromise. IMO, dance and singing and playing instruments can all elevate one another.

[Edited 10/23/20 9:27am]

I know dance is art. Which is what we saw in the Raspberry Beret video, the Kiss video, the Girls & Boys video-ballet dancer/UTCM scene-Jerome... Cat during the SOTT performance bathed in shadow and smoke etc
.
I'm saying I think he focused more on dance than musicianship from his own part.
I remember watching the First Ave open rehearsal and him bringing out his finger cymbals and just the who production seems like it could have been different.

.

I wasn't saying what you assume I'm saying. For that matter I'll add, it would have been cool to seen the ballet dancer and the Kiss dancer on the tour as well.

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Reply #144 posted 10/23/20 9:50am

rednblue

Margot said:

BanishedBrian said:

.

Succinct explanation of exactly what happened.

Oh, my.


The record industry is exploitative. That's very worth of attention. But IMO so many contradictions with the "SLAVE" presentation. Many outlined much more eloquently (than I can) here and elsewhere.

But here's just two considerations connecting to how it was oversimple, or at least IMO could have been more effective with a different (though not necessarily less hard-hitting) approach.

* There were ways in which people at Warners treated Prince's artistry extremely well.

* Prince was ambitious, and though specific instances will be forever argued here, I think it's likely naive to think that Prince himself was one of the least manipulative/exploitative people out there.

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Reply #145 posted 10/23/20 10:03am

rednblue

OldFriends4Sale said:

rednblue said:


Sorry to be so predictable, but popping in to say dance is art, just like singing, playing instruments, theatrics, visual art, etc., etc.

I know you're into multiple sorts of art OldFriends, so sorry my predictable shout-out to dance is attached to your post.

Parade is a favorite album for me, and that's saying a LOT when talking within Prince albums. Really appreciate what you say about possible people that could have brought more live album elements to the tour!

Prince worked with some amazing dancers which likely would elevate art. In fact, I just left a post comment about Desmond Richardson, who was part of the Rave Un2 performance, on the sexy dancers thread.

The Village Voice said this about a different, later (2002) performance: "The magnificent Richardson ripples to Prince in a solo that’s almost spiritual in its sensuality."

So I don't think that bringing dance equates to compromise. IMO, dance and singing and playing instruments can all elevate one another.

[Edited 10/23/20 9:27am]

I know dance is art. Which is what we saw in the Raspberry Beret video, the Kiss video, the Girls & Boys video-ballet dancer/UTCM scene-Jerome... Cat during the SOTT performance bathed in shadow and smoke etc
.
I'm saying I think he focused more on dance than musicianship from his own part.
I remember watching the First Ave open rehearsal and him bringing out his finger cymbals and just the who production seems like it could have been different.

.

I wasn't saying what you assume I'm saying. For that matter I'll add, it would have been cool to seen the ballet dancer and the Kiss dancer on the tour as well.


I think I gotcha, thanks!

Is it correct that, among other things, you would have liked to have gotten more Parade tour time with Prince playing guitar, piano, bass, maybe even drums, etc.?

Really enjoyed the First Avenue rehearsal with the highlighting of finger cymbals, and the part where Prince gets behind the drums. heart

Much appreciate your points about specific instrumentalists/singers/dancers that could have brought some great elements to the Parade live show.

I, too, love the dancing in the Kiss video. Really enjoyed reading an interview with the "veiled" dancer from that video. Will try to find it and bring it to the sexy dancers thread.

[Edited 10/23/20 10:03am]

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Reply #146 posted 10/23/20 10:08am

rednblue

BanishedBrian said:

Margot said:

Oh, my.

.

Which part is inaccurate?


I didn't think "inaccurate" was implied, but will butt out now and let you all talk.

[Edited 10/23/20 10:10am]

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Reply #147 posted 10/23/20 10:40am

rednblue

heartpeacesheart said:

I am not sure anyone is paying attention to how many questions are within the topics below but it could be that I haven't approached responding to that topic in that way either. thebanishedone said:

During the whole decade of the 80's Prince was redefining musical landscapes

without any fear he was pushing the enveloupe.

But starting with the 1991 Diamonds And Pearls Prince incorporated rap into his sound

and overall dumbed his sound to make it safe.I think we can agree

that Diamonds And Pearls is Prince at his safest ,a far cry from the 1980-1988 daring artist.

Why Prince start with compromises when it comes to his music?

Was it being disillusion with his own vision?

Getting scared from the new sounds coming from the streets that he couldn't relate to?

Financial loss from commercial flops of his projects or something else?

Thanks, heartpeacesheart.

Don't know how often Prince may have been disillusioned.

Can say that he seemed very restless...that is to say he had so many amazing ideas, and wanted to keep moving and get those ideas out. biggrin

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Reply #148 posted 10/23/20 10:54am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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rednblue said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I know dance is art. Which is what we saw in the Raspberry Beret video, the Kiss video, the Girls & Boys video-ballet dancer/UTCM scene-Jerome... Cat during the SOTT performance bathed in shadow and smoke etc
.
I'm saying I think he focused more on dance than musicianship from his own part.
I remember watching the First Ave open rehearsal and him bringing out his finger cymbals and just the who production seems like it could have been different.

.

I wasn't saying what you assume I'm saying. For that matter I'll add, it would have been cool to seen the ballet dancer and the Kiss dancer on the tour as well.


I think I gotcha, thanks!

Is it correct that, among other things, you would have liked to have gotten more Parade tour time with Prince playing guitar, piano, bass, maybe even drums, etc.?

Really enjoyed the First Avenue rehearsal with the highlighting of finger cymbals, and the part where Prince gets behind the drums. heart

Much appreciate your points about specific instrumentalists/singers/dancers that could have brought some great elements to the Parade live show.

I, too, love the dancing in the Kiss video. Really enjoyed reading an interview with the "veiled" dancer from that video. Will try to find it and bring it to the sexy dancers thread.

[Edited 10/23/20 10:03am]

Yes, especially piano in this instance, since his character and Prince wanted to showcase his piano playing more. Channelling his Liberace instead of the song snippets

To have heard a full out rendition of Condition of the Heart!! All those camptivating sounds

Alexis de Paris that was performed a few times was a great example of the musicianship and quality of the craft. Prince on guitar during Paisley Park etc

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https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
What's the matter with your life...?
https://www.youtube.com/w...nm2Qq6QTFs
#IDEFINEME
https://www.youtube.com/w...7Xc21b6BYE
Keep Looking
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Reply #149 posted 10/23/20 1:31pm

lrn36

avatar

jaawwnn said:

MattyJam said:


No.

Two negatives make a positive right? Rap can be art, just like pop can be art. Cool, cool. Good thread.

Rap goes all the way back.

https://www.youtube.com/w...gvCCWcR5dM

https://www.youtube.com/w...UAzLpG8sf8

https://www.youtube.com/w...RS62nccwmw

https://www.youtube.com/w...jlhzf_84JM

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